POCM > Pagan Christs > dionysus -- Refuted

Dionysus 1200 BC -- a dying, revivifed savior from trouble

Pagan Christs
The deity Dionysos: "To these ends I have laid my deity aside
and go disguised as man." What ends? Read the summary of The Bacchae here -- the "ends" were to go and punish a wicked king
[Euripides, The Bacchae, v. 55 (5th century BC)]

Was Jesus new? Was Jesus unique? Lets talk about Pikachu's selection of the "godman" Dionysus.

Dionysus was indeed a Big Name God (try to find that classification in the scholarly literature) and there's really no need to dispute the basics Pikachu gives about where and when he was known. As with Mithra it's other areas where Pikachu does his Fudge Dance.

But now's the time, folks, to unveil the big news about the "Orpheus on the cross" pictured here. Pikachu loves this one. He uses it about 6 times on his site. Each time he says it was from 200 years before Jesus. That's wrong anyway; experts had dated it to 200 years after Jesus. Note I said had. These days they don't date it at all, because it has been classed as a forgery. Our pal Venerable Bede asked Timothy Freke for a reference to where the picture was found; one of these was WKC Guthrie, Orpheus and Greek Religion, Princeton University Press, 1952. Bede checked this out and found an endnote to the 1952 edition of Guthrie's work (page 278) which states: In his review of this book [Orpheus and Greek Religion] in Gnomon (1935, p 476), Kern recants and expresses himself convinced by the expert opinion of Reil and Zahn that the gem is a forgery. These three men's names may mean little to you, but they were qualified experts -- enormously huge scholars -- on the subject of Dionysus. And all three declared Pikachu's showpiece a forgery.

That's the big news. Poor Pikachu!

Dating Dionysus

Birth Dionysus' mom was indeed the mortal woman, Semele; his dad was the supreme God Zeus -- though to use "God" as a proper name here is extremely misleading. The word "god" is a common noun and not a name. The Greek word theos was also not a proper name for the Judeo-Christian deity.

Death and resurrection The mysteries of Dionysus did indeed celebrate the death of the deity in the myth of young Dionysus-Zagreus, who died -- was torn apart by the Titans, boiled, and eaten. It is true that Only his heart was left and that it was buried; but Pikachu blows it when he says from it Dionysus was resurrected and ascended to heaven. There is no sign of a "resurrection" in the proper Jewish sense (a glorified physical body); and this is but one version out of many -- take your pick. One has the heart placed in a body made of gypsum; in another (which has D as son of Demeter), momma reassembles the pieces and makes D young again. In others, Zeus raised him up as he lay mortally wounded; or Zeus swallowed the heart of Dionysus and then begat him afresh by Semele...[or] the heart was pounded up and given in a potion to Semele, who thereby conceived him." Isn't it amazing how inadequate Pikachu's research is!

Salvation Pikachu may be correct that Belief in Dionysus brought salvation In Italy, in the fourth century BC, texts written on gold plates and buried with the dead, describe the souls of Dionysus followers in the afterlife, drinking not from one particular spring in Hades, but from another cool pool -- and that will give them divinity and eternal life. But find me any religious tradition that doesn't promise this and you'll be bringing news. This reflects common religious tradition; the Jews of the NT era also believed in "salvation" and "eternal life" (but not "divinity") -- and neither did Christians, as the Greeks believed it. There is a far more direct line of "borrowing" from Judaism, if we want to play that game.

By the way, stupid --

Pikachu of course only hurts himself when he tells you, Don't think of Hades as Hell, a place uniquely of punishment, think of it as Hades the place of the dead. That would only reduce the alleged parallel; but really, why not parallel instead to the Jewish "place of the dead," Sheol? Actually, Hell in Christianity is a place of shame anyway -- not really "punishment" as we think of it (sizzling on grids, etc). We'll see elsewhere what Pikachu has to say about "ascent" of the dead (could be interesting as there is no parallel in Christianity to that).

We don't dispute
any of the dates Pikachu assigns here. How early Dionysius was makes no difference, because the parallels either do not exist or are contrived by linguistic equivocation..

So it doesn't matter if Justin Martyr had a problem with this, even if he wrote that the Devil reading the Old Testament prophesies of the Messiah sent Bacchus early, to trick men about Jesus. The parallels just don't hold, period -- and this says nothing in favor of Christian "borrowing", for that matter::

Yes, it is correct: "The devils, accordingly, when they heard these prophetic words, said that Bacchus was the son of Jupiter, and ...having been torn in pieces, he ascended into heaven." But as noted, that's just one story out of many, and there's a vast difference between the means of "sonship" (divine fiat vs. crude sex), means of death (eaten by giants; crucified), purpose of life, "heaven" (pagan vs. Jewish-Christian). Don't let the equivocation with language fool you as it did Pikachu. [Justin Martyr, First Apology, 54]

It is true that Dionysus was celebrated in Civic religion and in mysteries, but Pikachu's description of the Mysteries of Dionysus deserves an award for obfuscation --

initiation by bathing -- baptism
-- is something I did NOT find documented in any literature on Dionysius. The did have a "baptism" by air (using a winnowing fan) but as the British scholar of classics who reviewed my article noted, the Dionysians did not believe in original sin, so water baptism would obviously not carry the same meaning for them. And besides, Jewish ritual immersions offer a much better parallel.

a sacred meal -- is also something I could not find verified, but actually, it would not matter, because a "sacred meal" was a component of just about any social gathering of the ancient world -- even if it was just a club for firefighters. Eating was a time for fellowship and social communion -- the parallel is meaningless.

a myth about the death and resurrection the god is also too vague. The "death" served no redemptive purpose; the "resurrection" (as noted) was not a resurrection at all.

salvation -- is also far too general here. Bear in mind that "salvation" was a word of general use in that day, used much as we use the word "help". This is like finding parallels between calling the police for "help" and calling a radio show on home repair for "help". Deities were looked to for "salvation" from anything and everything. It's a universal principle...not a parallel or indication of "borrowing". But actually, hold the phone because the match is still a stinker. Cole, after a study of the grave inscriptions of Dionysus worshippers, points out that Dionysus "is not a savior who promises his worshippers regeneration, but with the stories of his own rebirth and rejuvenation, he is one who makes this life more sweet and the next one, perhaps, only a little less harsh." (Evans, with less detail, supposes an afterlife of sensual joy, but even that is no match for Christian salvation!.


Contrary to Pikachu, Dionysus was NEVER identified with the lamb (but he was identified with goats and rams), and was NEVER called: "King of Kings in fact, as my scholarly consultant noted, The only regular king of kings was Zeus, 'pater andron te theon te', as Homer calls him, though some Homeric goddesses are 'dia theaon' (which may mean 'goddess of goddesses'). 'King of kings' etc are Semitic idioms, as I'm sure you know, used to form the superlative, which is obviously formed differently in Greek. "Only Begotten Son," "Savior," -- not quite! The Bacchae has D's followers saying at his appearance, "We are saved!" -- but Freke and Gandy do not answer the needed question, "Saved from what???" In the context, it is "salvation" from Pentheus' ire. It isn't personal sin that D saves from. "Redeemer," "Sin bearer," "Anointed One," the "Alpha and Omega." All of this is taken directly from Acharya S -- with no documentation by her or by Pikachu. Dionysius was never known by these titles -- period.