![]() |
|||||||||||||
| |
|||||||||||||
| Many
later heretics |
Having presumed to dump apostolic succession with just a few burps, Pikachu now dives headfirst into the fantasy realm of the politically correct. You'll recognize what comes next -- the old Bauer hypothesis and all its later permutations; apparently Pikachu hasn't heard that Bauer has been debunked, and that only the fringe is still trying to give his theory CPR. In contrast, the mainstream is represented by scholars like Philip Jenkins (Hidden Gospels), who remain with the view that what we call orthodox Christianity was there firstest with the mostest -- while all of the other folks were Johnny come latelys offering permutations on and reactions to the reality. "Oh my"...Pikachu just bit the dust again. |
Dating
ancient documents
Here's a big fat lie by Pikachu, or more likely a sign of his ignorance. It is just plain false that the gospel manuscripts don't name the authors. Yes, they most certainly do -- the names of the authors are on every superscription at the beginning of each Gospel. No exceptions. Every copy has one, and there is no confusion (i.e., no difference in attribution). And if that's not enough for you, then you need to explain why Tacitus' Annals, with no better evidence than such a superscription at the beginning, are any more doubtful. No, Pikachu, you're not nuts. You're just ill-informed. Since the original gospels do name the authors, Pikachu's attempt to foist the naming on to Papias (not a "Catholic" at this early date, by the way) is ridiculous; however, Papias does give crucial external evidence, of an earlier date and a better quality than we have for secular documents, once again. I'd like to see Pikachu pull his "scholars just take a guess at the dates" routine on classical scholars. There are indeed only gospel fragments in the second century; on the other hand, it is another falsehood that there are no complete Gospels till the fifth century. Make that late second or early third century. And it's still better than works like Tacitus, where we don't have complete copies dated earlier than say, the 11th century! Yet more fudge is the argument that Apostolic Fathers, guys like Clement, Polycarp and Ignatius...do not quote, or even mention, the gospels. They do in fact allude to the Gospels (see here, and anyway, if we want to play that game, Pikachu just dated Tacitus to 200 AD based on Tertuallian. What he needs to show is that there should have been a mention of the Gospels as documents where there wasn't. Good luck. 7-11
scholarship You can also ignore Pikachu's little whinge about differences in the Gospels. No oops, ands or buts. Not even with the old "Luke and Matthew give genealogies with different people on them" canard. |
||||||||||
| It isn't "reasonable people" who make these whinges. It's people who don't do enough homework. And that does unfortunately include some scholars, hampered by the narrow focus their professional often requires.
Actually, no one argues that the gospels are "7-11 surveillance videos" as Pikachu claims. But it's just a swing to the opposite extreme of error to claim that any of this makes the Gospels "unrelaible". |
Be a bigot |
If Pikachu wants to play his bias game, it's just as well to say the scholarship he's talking about starts with the idea that the New Testament is just a fairly tale -- and uses methods that involve biases against religion and miracles. How's that for cheap advertising? |
| Next Pikachu falls for the overstatements that the gospels describe different theologies. As though what they offer is mutually exclusine. Sorry, but "Mark's Jesus" is not the only one who does miracles and "gives out his message in cryptic parables whose meaning he explains only to His inner circle." He does miracles in Luke, Matthew, and John as well; and the use of cryptic teaching explained to an inner circle was a typical educational process for the period. Nothing unique there. That John's Jesus is self consciously transcendent is true, but also explained by John's supplementing the Synoptic record -- and that his Gospel is designed as an "resocialing" document (see more here). There's a long list of reasonable explanations for these differences that Pikachu has obviously never investigated -- he's too busy blathering details from his own limited study. |
Many
late heresies |
|
What a dip! |
You CAN believe Pikachu when he says that New Testament / early Church scholarship's critical literature is oceanic. Having swum that ocean much longer and to greater depth, I will say you can also believe that he hasn't done more than a dip, and the results are the same as if you did have a few minutes at the beach -- mainly, a bad sunburn, terrific thirst, and sand in your ears. |
| Yes, It is nutty, and it is a theory of fringe scholarship, not the mainstream. Here's how the fringe gets there: |
To start, they invent a collection of Jesus' sayings Matthew and Luke used to write their gospels called Q There are a passel of problems with this idea; you can see details here, but among the problems are 1) lack of hard evidence for such a document; 2) that the creation and use of such a document as theorists describe would not be in accord with the methods of composition -- theoretical and practical _- of the period; 3) the arbitary nature of the theory, so that as one scholar put it, "Q is what you make it". And is that ever true with the folks Pikachu uses. The next step they do is to claim that this Q -- which has never been seen in print, and which is unknown in any later writing (talk about inconsistency, since Pikachu whinges about lack of mention of the Gospels!), never mentions Jesus death and resurrection, or Jesus bringing salvation. Actually there are some Q theroists who would dispute that -- some versions DO mention all those things, to various extents, but that just testifies to how unstable and flimsy the whole hypothesis really is. Helmut Koester's sound bite is thus not representative at all>> |
In the Synoptic Sayings Source, "Christological titles for Jesus are strikingly absent, [scholar-speak for 'Jesus is never called Christ'] nor is Jesus proclaimed as the one who rose from the dead and who will return in the future." [Helmut Koester, Introduction to the New Testament, volume 2, History and Literature of Early Christianity, 2d ed, pg153] and Synoptic Sayings Source is evidence "for the development of a Jesus tradition that had no relationship to the proclamation of the cross and resurrection of Jesus." [Helmut Koester, Introduction to the New Testament, , volume 2, History and Literature of Early Christianity, 2d ed, pg154] |
In fact, get this,
gnostic Christianity is an obvious mutation that could never have represented a Jewish, Palestinian Jesus. That's the real reason why they have no resurrection -- like the Greeks, they eschewed the material. That's the real reason they eschewed the cross -- because suffering was illusory. And it all came no earlier than the middle of the second century. Your Sunday school class skipped this crap for good reason. |
| An
old canard |
| On the other hand, Pikachu is likely correct that the gentiles-convert sect eventually "formed their own Christianity" and became the Ebionites of the middle second century. Still, it remains that all available data shows them getting the shaft from the mainstream church. It takes a conspiracy, and ignoring and expaining away of available evidence, to say otherwise. |
By the by |
| The Ebionites did deny the divinity of Jesus and his virgin birth -- and because they are clearly Johnny come latelys, obviously did not do it because they got "tacked on to the Christ myth after the first schism." |
| We don't need to go down Pikachu's list of "different Christianities" -- -- all of these were decidedly late, and had ideas that would never cohere with Christianity's origins in first century Jewish Palestine. The variations on the Trinity all fail at the template of pre-NT Jewish Wisdom theology and were in fact efforts to cohere the Trinity with Greek thinking. We don't need to look at his list of "different Bibles", either -- we have noted above both the lateness of these documents and given a link to a much more sophisticated exposition on the formation of the canon than Pikachu's "they did it in the 4th century canard. |
| by Walter Bauer
|
The one book that Pikachu recommends here that needs new comment is his endorsement of this one by Walter Bauer. Bauer's work was hideously flawed and relied extensively on arguments from silence. You can see more here but here are some details now. First, Bauer ignored data from the New Testament. He regarded the NT as "both too unproductive and too much disputed to be able to serve as a point of departure" - which is rather an easy way to shove it under the carpet! Second, his work is full of arguments from silence. Bauer's book is full of might nots, perhapses, and could bes; even those who fully supported his point of view plainly admitted that silence was a primary source of his argumentation. And finally, but most importantly: Bauer was just plain wrong! There are two major disassemblings of the Bauer thesis by Thomas A. Robinson and H. E. W. Turner that show where he went wrong; and as Glenn Miller has noted: ...(Bauer's) hypothesis of 60 years ago IGNORED key elements of the data (BTE:129-161), and considerable data has come to light (in both literary and archeological arenas) documenting the "early and strong" appearance of orthodoxy (e.g. RNC:47ff; BTE:35-91). His position is called 'overly simplified' by even the editors of his 2nd edition (!), and yet his hypothesis is often assumed uncritically... Another good point is made by Hultgren: "The traditional view, that orthodoxy preceded heresy, does not require that orthodoxy existed in every conceivable place prior to heresy." This means, in terms of Bauer's thesis, that even IF it were proven that heresy got somewhere firstest with the mostest, that does NOT mean that it emerged on equal terms with orthodoxy! Such an absurd position as Bauer's would require us to believe that Mormonism was a religion equally dominant with general Christian beliefs in America from the start in 1776, since the Mormons were there "firstest with the mostest" in Utah! No wonder the big boys reject this book. Cumbersome and tendentious, it deserves to be out of Print, not available at Amazon. |