Ah, summer. Sun. Vacation. Screwballs. The Tilkrig are back for the season (see above) and Hearthstone's able residents will rotate hosting duties every six months from now on. Isn't that nice?


The heat seems to have gotten to some people, even in Canada. Here's the word from a disgruntled fan of Tom Harpur who didn't enjoy our detailed disembowling of his book:

Literalist, fundamentalist 'christ believers' certainly shout the loudest nonsense in attempting to defend themselves don't they? And they do so in the most hideous of ways... you can't be serious!!! Contrary to your thinking, most of us can think for ourselves and are fairly intellegent. Your site is just plain trashy... no class. Fundamentalist fanatacal religion, in any form, be it Islamist, Christian, Hinduism, or Judaism... is devastating for world peace and only spreads hatred, intolerance and divisiveness. Get yourself educated. Canadians at least have open minds!

Of course, it didn't come with a single response to any argument made. Harpur isn't the only fanboy attractor this month; some still cling to the old heroes, like this:

i don't get hot under the collar when it comes to people and their responses to eiseman's giagantic book about james. truth is , i've only made it a little more than half way through . however , i would love to read a better review than that weasle of a summery that you gave. you hit the hot spots only to bow out with , "straw men , overreading of texts , outright errors ...." then , i hope to sea you take an eiseman fan to the cleaners only to find another cop out , "my bad" you said . i'm ready to go to the cleaners ! (smile). i can't type or spell and i'm not the brightest star in the sky , but i can fight . so , hook me up to some eiseman bashers , your probably too big-time for me , anyway.

And I'm still here with my fans, of course, er, right?

I've viewed your website, and I have to say that I can't blame you for using a false name. It is patently clear that you haven't a clue as to any scholarly information. I'd also be too embarrassed to use my real name, if I were you.

Oh, but some people have a better source:

After studying the history of the bible for many years, I have come to the conclusion that people like yourselves are the ones that continue to preach intolerance, bigotry, hatred and are intent in having religion destroy humankind. While you may try to undermine Helen Ellerbe in her book "The Dark Side of Christian History", you might as well deny the holocaust. Christian history cannot be denied and people such as yourselves embrace the putrid teachings of a religion that has brought misery to countless millions for thousands of years. Isn't it ironic that you will defend the bible when no one even knows who wrote most of it or when. If the man Jesus and God ever come back to this planet, he will send you and your followers to the hell you deserve for your treatment of fellow human beings.

When told he'd won a Screwball Award, this one replied:

Thanks...there are more and more of us award winners out here. We don't hide the truth and we don't bury it. We don't try to control others and we don't condem them. As Thomas Jefferson said "Millions of innocent men, women, and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined, imprisoned; yet we have not advanced one inch towards uniformity. What has been the effect of coercion? To make one half of the world fools, and the other half hypocrites. To support error and roguery all over the earth". Your kind, your religion and the others of the world are the most dangerous ideas that man has ever known. Your bible was written by tribespeople unlike today's Taliban and it is on your religion's shoulders to understand what it has done to humanity and the terrors it still imposes. Your religion needs to end for humanity to survive. Try studying something besides the Bible and open the mind that Christianity has taught you to close. You and all of us will be better for it

Ah yes. Miseducated and proud of it. By the way, the Inquisition killed everyone in Spain. But the top level of scholarship with a K was in this letter:

A simple test to see if you understand superstition. In the Grimm's Tale Rumpelstiltskin why is it straw that is spun into gold? If you get the answer you will understand resurrection

But really, nothing tops the letter received by one of my fellow workers for their site:

I just came across your horrendous site this morning... I nearly retched. Not only do you not support your "facts" with anything more than hearsay and conjecture, you also refuse to listen to any known fact about humanity. I don't se any mention of the racial "cleansing" that Caucasian "christians" (puke) have meant subjecting the world to for centuries. The only thing that comes close in your ramblings is the mention of Hitler who was in fact a christian. No mention of that though, huh? You can take your rhetoric and propaganda and peddle it to the blind sheep (mostly kids 5 and below) and most adults who's IQ's wouldn't even pass for a poor bowling score. The last being mentioned seems to probably fit your staff perfectly! Feel free to write back with any excuse you can think of for trying to poison so many minds.

He does realize that even genius level IQ is a poor bowling score, right?


Don't Try Being This Stupid at Home

Our erstwhile award winner "myth buster" is setting records all over TWeb for comments like these below. I referred him to Miller's excellent article on slavery (here) and was told to consult the latest ANE scholarship which refutes Miller...er....

sorry Holding, you lose. It's not MY meaning. It's what the text says. You have to take the printed word at face value. You don't get to twist and manipulate the meaning to suit your agenda and conceal the true meaning. A ture and timeless god supersedes any historical and social context. If "God" said people=property, who am I to twist the printed word? All the scholarship in the world doesn't change the fact that "God" said it's OK if your slave dies a day or two after a beating because, after all, the slave is only your money. If the author intended to mean, "The master shall not be punished if the slave dies a day or two after a beating on the off chance he actually died of a heart attack," then that's what should be in print. The clear implication is that the death results from the beating, but you shamelessly pervert the "Word of God."

WOW! A KJVO atheist, can you imagine? Here's some more gems from our buddy:


Hi-ya country bumpkin! Try googling "Mithra" for starters. The Pagan origins or Christianity are well-documented for anyone open-minded enough to look. It's reasonable to say that Christianity itself is a Pagan religion, save for thefact that the cult of the crucifix is alive and well today

Yet further proof that the Bible is outrageously stupid and only a desperate moron could subscribe to it: From the RSV - Deuteronomy 22:13-21: "If any man takes a wife, and goes in to her, and charges her with shameful conduct, and brings an evil name upon her, saying, 'I took this woman, and when I came near her, I did not find in her the tokens of virginity,' then the father of the young woman and her mother shall take and bring out the tokens of her virginity to the elders of the city in the gate; and the father of the young woman shall say to the elders, 'I gave my daughter to this man to wife, and he spurns her; and lo, he has made shameful charges against her, saying, "I did not find in your daughter the tokens of virginity." And yet these are the tokens of my daughter's virginity.' And they shall spread the garment before the elders of the city. Then the elders of that city shall take the man and whip him; and they shall fine him a hundred shekels of silver, and give them to the father of the young woman, because he has brought an evil name upon a virgin of Israel; and she shall be his wife; he may not put her away all his days. But if the thing is true, that the tokens of virginity were not found in the young woman, then they shall bring out the young woman to the door of her father's house, and the men in the city SHALL STONE HER TO DEATH WITH STONES, because she has wrought folly in Israel by playing the harlot in her father's house; so you shall pruge the evil from the midst of you.
... are any of you Christians so stupid as to believe that anything on a garment can prove a woman's virginity? Sadly, I'm sure the answer is "yes." Anyone care to explain that one?
Of course, I don't expect even this outrageously ignorant passage to dampen the faith of you Christians. Chjristians are feeble-minded fools who NEED supernatural answers to the problems of the world and they will cling to the Bible regardless of how stupid it is. They can't bear the thought of rotting into nothingness when they die. Faith is a very powerful thing; there is real power in belief, but the power comes from belief itself, not from any supernatural entity. I think it's particularly sad that women subscribe to this religion which obviously holds them in a degrading and subservient place below men. Anyone with brains can see that it's wrong to stone a woman to death for not being a virgin, ragardless of the time place or culture she happens to have lived in. PLLLUUUUUUUUTTTT!!!!!

"Spare not the rod for the child shall not die. Thou shalt beat him with the rod and deliver his soul from HELL." - The Bible (Don't know where this is in the Bible? Figure it out for yourself!)
Don't think most Child Psychologists consider beating your kid to be child abuse? Do some research! Don't expect ME to do everything for you!LOL
GhostWalaiOtoko (not a screwball):It is true that strictly speaking there are differences between boys and girls that are not matters of socialization. However, as one learns in anthropology, in some cultures the attributes considered masculine and the attributes considered feminine are almost poles apart from the attributes considered masculine and feminine here. Whatever "research" our "mythbuster" has done in child psychology, a field itself subservient to sociology, he certainly has done no research in the inputs of historians, cultural anthropologists, and sociologists in Biblical studies, which are the fields he would truly have to interact. Has this verse been majorly abused by anachronizers who didn't know the historical context because they live in a different setting? Yes. Does this mean the verse is of itself unjust? No.
buster: INteresting point, but if you take the verse at face value, especially the KJV which has been the standard for centuries, it's quite easy to see how it justifies child abuse. Do you think "God" was aware of the tremendous and widespread psychological damage this would have on kids? If so, couldn't he have "inspired" the divine translators to have done a more humane job of explaining the verses intentions in order to avoid the widespread child abuse it has inspired? If not, could you admit "God" is not omnipotent?

And while God's at it, can he also wipe for him, too?

Why Brooks Has to Bicycle

Brooks Trubee (jimbo), after some time off to pedal himself into brick walls, returned with this gem which explains his transition from an ignorant Christian to an ignorant atheist:

Before continuing, I should point out another way in which the Christian religion imposes guilt on people. It does this by informing them that sexual desire is evil. Obviously many other religions, such as Islam, take this tact as well. Feeling "lust in your heart" is portrayed as a grave offense against God. Since sexual desire is almost universal in human beings, this appeal is directed at a wide audience. Of course there is a problem with this appeal since sexual desire can be hidden--it only exists in the mind and may not be, shall we say, manifested to other people. However, this problem is resolved by making God an all-seeing voyeur who can peer inside your mind 24 hours a day, kind of like a supernatural Big Brother. So when a Christian has an "impure" thought or desire, he or she can be quite certain that God is jotting it down in his little black book for future reference.
It seems clear that Christianity puts itself in opposition to "worldly" pleasures of all kinds, not just sex, and in this way it makes believers more dependant on their faith. ...

Brooks was properly informed by TWeb Christian "Mountain Man":

Sorry, skepticbud already tried this song and dance and quickly had his arguments ripped to shreds. And with ignorant nonsense like "the Christian religion imposes guilt on people . . . by informing them that sexual desire is evil" I suspect you'll fare little better than your colleague.
Try reading Song of Solomon, you dope!

To which Brooks mumbled forth:

The Bible is confusing jumble of different types of stories and genres all mixed together, with various conflicting claims and teachings. That is why in part of Bible we have Jesus telling people to love their neighbors, and in another part we have God telling his chosen people to put their neighbors into lifelong slavery. In one part of the Bible we are informed that children should respect their parents, in another part of the Bible we have Jesus telling people to hate their parents. In one part of the Bible we have the Song of Solomon, and in another part we have Jesus condemning sexual desire and Paul advising us that "'It is good for a man not to touch a woman."
These conflicting claims don't make a whole lot of sense until we realize that the Bible is not the communication of some perfect, all-knowing, all-good supernatural being but was instead written by and thrown together by fallible human beings. When we recognize this, the contradictions of the Bible are easy to understand.

As I told him, though...

In past years I would have tried to enlighten you by explaining how 1 Cor. 7 was a specific response to a current situation in Paul's day (in particular, a famine) and pointed to how the rhetorical structure of the passage indicates that the phrase you quote is actually something said by the Corinthians (no doubt influenced by Platonic or proto-Gnostic anti-materialism) that Paul is quoting back to them, then rebutting.
However, since you are too stupid to understand such things, much less actually rebut them, I think I'll go draw a toon of you being beaten up by Annabelle Ketterling instead.

Which I did.

Brooks learns the hard way that it is good for a man not to touch a woman!

Why Wikipedia is the Most Trusted Source

I'll let this story speak for itself....

I know this wasn't in the past month nor on the internet, but a heckler at an evangelistic open-air in Dublin at Easter told me that the fact that we do not know the birthday of Jesus is proof that He didn't exist even though there was evidence of His existence, since if we knew He existed we would know His birthday, so, he said, so long as there is no knowledge of His birthday, it doesn't matter how much evidence there is that He existed, for since we do not know His birthday, then He didn't exist.
I said that this was a stupid argument, for scholars are not sure if Julius Caesar was born in 102 BC or 100 BC, and if Henry I of England was born in 1068 or 1069. So did they not exist then? He said that the difference was that Julius Caesar was a famous person in his own lifetime, Jesus was not. I said, "You aren't famous either, and since I don't know your birthday, and since I am not famous and you don't know my birthday, then we don't exist either!" He changed the subject and claimed that Constantine made up the Bible. I said, "Excuse me, but just down the road there is the Chester Beatty Library! I suggest you go down there and see manuscripts of the New Testament that predate Constantine by at least some 150 years!" But he was shouting at me and talking at 100mph, linking this Constantine conspiracy with George W Bush and Tony Blair invading Iraq! What an absolute Spock!
His First Name is Peter, Isn't it?

One of our readers offers one of his former professors for an Award that I think deserves Gold:

Professor Dr. Sellars for using Harper's Magazine as a resource against the Bible and for misspelling Bart Ehrman's name and claiming he laid claims to a mythical Christ. "It's Erdman. "Bart D. Erdman is a professor at the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill, and chairman of the Department of Religious Studies," as he is identified."
Hyam on Rye

"Ebionite" wins Gold for his use of the latest bad scholarship to criticize bad scholarship:

Hyam Maccoby may of had letters behind his name but I think he was a little ignorant of Ebionites in general.

the greek word translated to 'REPENT" acctualy meant to"open and unlosen your mind" for a second do this and then read the "Epistel of Barnabas " and understand the scholars have it wrong.

Ask yourself who among the early christians even read the old testement?

the date of the epistle is very early much to early to call this spiritual understanding of the law to what the church claims was the later gnostic like Ebionites.

Just as the only letter paul sent out that to jewish converts letter to the hebrews dealed with the allegory's of the old testement scriptures the epistel of Barnabas was doing the same thing. This letter was not for greeks. It was from Ebionites to jewish converts I.E. ritual literal law practicing jews to teach them the hidden truth of thier religion.

Have you seen many of the epistles of early date of paul that is now surpressed because he was quoting the likes of plato and giving them the spititual understanding of thier text?

Some things to think about: when the word Gnostic was coined it had a different meaning then we define it with today. It mearly meant "spiritual Knowldge." Now scholars have redfined it to mean what they believe thier text say. any meaning we give Gnostism besides spiritual knowlage is a new meaning and different then the old meaning.

There was no need to convert a jew to christianity when people were called christan before jesus walked the earth anyway. Yeshua's Ebionite movement didnt convert anyone but rather spiritualized the mythric christians and the carnal jews, thoes that could walk that narrow path anyway. for the most part people resisted the truth and little by little called anyone that were actualy living a life like christ"heritics" and Finaly Constantine allied with the most carnal of christians to unite his empire and kill off the trouble makers.

The lord has given many lost text into the hands of the world and so far it has ignored them. Do you think it is true thoes given a lot a lot is expected? Ido. I would say we will be living in interesting times and expect more buried scriptures will soon be found that will challange many fossilized positions.

the oldest known complete copy of our Gospels is called the Evangelion Da - Mepharresh and in it we find Yeshua saying at Luke 21:34: "See that you do not make your minds heavy, to do this, never eat meat or drink wine."

And an I. Q. of 5, Too

TWeb noob "familyof5" wins Gold for pointing me to an infidels.org page with a list of the usual "contradiction" canards, and saying:

jpholding...can you explain these? It doesn't matter what context you take these in. They are errors. An error is an error. The bible is full of them, which was my point to begin with. This book is full of holes. If it is inerrant, than it would not actually contain any errors.
E. T. Likes Apple Pie

The other trolls took more Gold this round, but "Biblischism" (E. T.) wins some again, first for accidentally posting with the wrong account in the same thread, thus revealing that he was dishonestly posting as a Christian. Oh, and there's the usual sort of nonsense, such as this one advertising his perfect hindsight:

I suspect this question will receive derision, but I'll take the plunge anyway since this issue has bugged me for quite some time.

After waking in Paradise and being commanded to stay away from the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil, Eve felt compelled to venture near the Tree anyway. I think this is one of the most unbelievable events in the Bible. Why? Because I wouldn't do it.

I can say unequivocally that I wouldn't do it. Fear of the consequences that I would reap, which God specifically and by no means ambiguously explained to Adam and Eve, would have prevented my venturing near the one Tree among hosts of beautiful and appetizing horticulture that I was told to stay away from.

Let me put it another way. We can assume that Adam and Even were somehow equipped with the same awareness that life is God's gift that many Christians hold today. In fact, even more so. This awareness would have been concentrated in a sense. It would have been unmarred by the distractions of the "world" that followed the Fall and that we currently struggle with.

Basically I'm arguing that Eve must have been evil incarnate for having the afformentioned knowledge of the gift of life and living in an environment of obvious breathtaking beauty and still deciding to go against the very God who was the author of it all. It just doesn't make sense. And it doesn't make sense because I wouldn't do it. This is not a self-righteous claim, just a statement of fact because I know myself. It is no more self-righteous than saying you would not steal $10,000 if you had the chance and could get away with it. I've met some principled individuals who would make this claim and I believe them.

If you were in Eve's position and were blessed with all the knowledge, intelligence, and wisdom that God gives human beings not born but made from the dust as full-grown adults, would you still go anywhere near the Tree? I think the answers to this question will be very telling. Because either A&E had all the awareness of God's gift despite having nothing to compare it to or they were dumb tabula rasas, which to me would make them guiltless because they had no concept of what death was or what lies were since they hadn't experienced the malevolence of either yet.

TylerIvan earns the Jim Jones Award for thinking he might be the messiah:

the second coming of the messiah going to be a person who grows up in the world and finds the truth and chooses the people or church that has the truth. But the key is, he will find it alone. That person is the one who holds the keys to life and death. It actually might be me.

moose7237 wins the High Density Award for his stubborn (but lackluster) performance with such comments as:

So what you are implying is that Jesus is God since he was before Abraham. Well that contradicts God saying that no one has ever seen him. Therefore your best possible bet is that Jesus is only human
Oh what I meant by I'm not going to search this stuff is that, I'm not going to go out to bookstores and libraries and contact people and see if they let me borrow their books. I will look at the internet though.

Jude3b earns the Protocols of the Elders of Zion Award:

THE THEOLOGY OF DISPENSATIONALISM which has led to Christian Zionism, Messianic Judaism and the Heretical Jewish Roots movement seems to be ANTI-CHRISTIAN.

Isn't it true that Biblically speaking, a Jew is someone who is covenanted into the people of the Jews by circumcision?

Than why today, are the Jews all those who claim to be Jews, or those who are covenanted with the Jews? Including Christian Zionists who have not been circumcised?

...My fifth opinion is that today there is a new heresy that is springing up. A new group - Christian Zionists, nearly all of whom were Christians and not Jews, go around teaching Heretical Jewish Roots doctrines - and they join Messianic Judaism. They become enemies of the Gospel and preach an Anti-Christian theology.

My POINT: I am not expressing opposition to Messianic Judaism in this thread. I share the great Joy of the Lord everytime a lost Jew comes to Christ and is saved. Praise God! Messianic Synagogues are ok - if they want to have them to maintain their culture, etc. Likewise, I feel the same about Spanish or Korean groups who have their own congregations and worship in their native tongue. Thats all ok. No problem.

The problem that I see is that Christian Zionism has become Anti-Christian and is presenting Messianic Judaism as an alternative to historic Biblical Christianity. I believe this is due to the erroneous dispensational views that they have learned from the Hal Lindsey's, the John Nelson Darby's, etc.

DoubtingJohn (John Loftus) hasn't been as screwy as late (maybe he's treading lightly after so many Golds), but he does earn the People Who Can't Count Award for this on his blog:

People assail us here at DC all of the time because we dare to try to debunk Christianity. We threaten these believers, so like a swarm of bees when startled they attack. Since we disagree with them they have two explanations for why we no longer believe. They claim that we are either being deceived by Satan (or the Calvinist God), or that we know the truth but we just deny it, or that we are just plainly ignorant and/or stupid, or all three.

After that one, my money's on "stupid".

Undisputed_Seraphim wins the Inside Edition Award for the following ex-uh-jesus:

Then again, while I was perusing my copy of the Bible, Romans section, I came across a very interesting verse: Romans 7:18

For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.

So... basically what god is saying... is that nothing good resides in Him, and that even if he does, he doesn't know how to perform good. I find this piece of absurdity amusing. What say you?

(By the way....that's Paul speaking, not God.)

Bluenose wins the Paranoid Case of the Year Trophy for the following anti-testimony:

Hi guys, some of you may remember me posting on christian forums last year. Since then I ave decided to shun christianity and take on buddhism so heres why.

Christianity has been in my family for the past thousand years, served its purpose I suppose but why did my ancestors stick to christianity. Having done some research on the history of christianity in western europe, its pretty obvious that fear was what allowed christianity to dominate the region.

Before the industrial revolution most people had limited access to news and knowledge. The only source of information which they had was the church. Therefore they went to church for fear that they would fall behind the times, after all knowledge is power, supposedly. Know we have so many sources of news and knowledge, the church no longer serves this purpose.

The church used fear in other ways to keep christians, after all people had to do whatever the church said, follow christian sets of beliefs and coontribute money, or else they would go to hell. The idea of hell is not logical to me as it assumes that all people who came before Jesus Christ are now in hell.

Yet another way the churche kept the fires of christianity burning, was administering fear through the medium of violence. Up until about 1950 it was common for people from the church to go round peoples houses and threaten working class people until they gave them money. I know many people from that generation who admit to having been threatened by the church. The church can no longer threaten me in modern society so they cannot use fear to their gain.

So my ancestors and most of yours were threatened into the church, now that doesnt happen in most parts of the world. So history was making me want to give up christianity, I decided to look at christianity in modern society.

I looked at some of the parishoners in my local church and what did I see, divorcees, teen mothers, kids who smoke cannabis and other things and many more people to that effect. If you read the bible and take it literally, these people are sinners and obviously dont pay much attention to the teachings of Jesus Christ. In the western world christianity has been contorted into an almost unrecognisable faith, meaning trillions of different things to its billion followers.

We now have homosexuals taking up important positions in churches worldwide. Learning christianity from a homosexual is like being taught be a teacher who hasnt completed kinder garten. If I am going to follow something, I dont want to follow the diluted version and, most christians follow a diluted form of christianity.

Having worked out the history and modern state of christianity, I realised that I just plain do not like my former religion. Maybe I was following the wrong branch of christianity. So which branch of christianity is for me. Theres 33308 branches of christianity so which did I choose, answer, none of them. Christianity was originally one thing, two thousand years later it has been divided by 33308. If the original christianity didnt work, then how can i follow versions which were not even created by Jesus Christ.

Having fully pondered most aspects of christianity, I decided that it is a religion which is totally different from the version Jesus Christ wanted you to follow. Christianity no longer meets the needs of the global society. People who follow it mainly do so because their family does or see it as a form of patriotism. Sure thats a generalisation but it is accurate for most Christians.

Buddhism was a prime choice for a new religion after being a christian as it is different in drastic ways. Buddhism is not idol worship in the way that christians worship Jesus Christ, Buddha is not a person but what someone becomes when they acheive enlightenment. Buddhism also appealed as it doesnt teach that humans are greater beings than other animals, for humans are animals and the theory of evolution backs that up. The concept and history of buddhism is much more peaceful than christianity as it has never been forced on people. Missionaries in south america and africa commited disgusting crimes in the name of christianity, the crusades were one of the darkest periods of human history and it was done in the name of christianity, a buddhist could never justify such horrific acts.

I thank you for reading my reasons for converting from christianity to buddhism and would appreciate it if people who respond canjustify their faith, rather than just criticise and laugh at a buddhist.

Clete picks up the Akhasic Records Award for this:

Nearly everything you quoted was written too for and about the believing members of the nation of Israel and so you are quite right, the vast majority of prayers lifted by believers today are not answered but not because God doesn't exist but because those praying aren't praying according to the Gospel of the Mystery, which was hidden in God from the beginning and revealed to and exclusively through the Apostle Paul.

Now there are tons of Christians on this site and elsewhere who will have a cow when they read what I just wrote but if you are wanting rational answers to your questions then dispensational theology is the only place you are going to get them. The Bible is full of countless contradictions and confusion otherwise.

And a user on IMDB wins the Truly Revolting Award for this:

I have always thought that missionaries like those portrayed in End of the Spear are rather strange people, scary people that want to force their beliefs on others at any cost. Self-righteous people that put their beliefs over those of all others and beleive that they can save everyone. I think these people deserve to be killed, and while that may sound harsh, if you think about it they are quite evil. Who are they to say that these people that dont beleive in christianity are going to hell because they havent been "saved" is insane. What kind of God do they worship? The people thay are trying to save have not made a conscious choice to shun God, they are just ignorant to the whole faith, and shouldnt be punnished with an eternity in hell because of it. I just wanted to know if anyone else thought missionaries are as dangerous as I do. I understand they do a lot of good for people as well, and I dont want to take that away from them, but forcing others to accept their beleifs sounds a lot like something to revolt against.

Special addendum: We wish to note the maker of the Flying Spaghetti Monster, Bobby Henderson, for a Lifetime Achievement Screwball as well as soak him in a nice alfredo sauce.

check this -- an account of a comedian suing Jews for Jesus

http://www.jesuspolice.com -- the latest crackpot website to prefer Acharya S over John Meier

http://talkback.lancasteronline.com/lofiversion/index.php/t33823.html -- a set of brain-dead individuals debating (snort) Jeff Downs, host of a conference I recently taught at

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dzzORZhnCao -- Marshall Brain does his thang on youtube, the myspace of video. More from there soon. His silliness here includes taking John 21:25 literally:

That's an awful lot of miracles -- so many that the world would not have room for all the books describing them. Presumably at least one person witnessed each miracle. Think of how many names fill just one phone book. Now imagine a whole world full of phone books. That's millions of people who all had their free wills destroyed by Jesus' presence on earth.

Brain also wins an extra award for a letter he wants to have people sign and send on November 1, 2006 to Lee Scott, President and CEO of Wal-Mart Stores:

Dear Sir,

We, the undersigned, respectfully request that Wal-Mart Stores, Inc. cease distribution of the book known as the Holy Bible. We make this request after careful consideration, having examined numerous passages in the Holy Bible that are repulsive, stridently offensive and/or illegal. The following five examples reveal the obscene nature of this book and help you to understand why we are making this request.

1) The Holy Bible demands that readers murder hundreds of thousands of Wal-Mart employees.

In Exodus 31:15 the Holy Bible demands: “For six days, work is to be done, but the seventh day is a Sabbath of rest, holy to the LORD. Whoever does any work on the Sabbath day must be put to death.” This demand is repeated in Exodus 35:2: “For six days, work is to be done, but the seventh day shall be your holy day, a Sabbath of rest to the LORD. Whoever does any work on it must be put to death.”

Mr. Scott, you are in a unique position to understand how dangerous these statements are. Hundreds of thousands of Wal-Mart's employees work on the Sabbath. The Holy Bible demands their murder. This threat to employee autonomy and safety should be both repugnant and highly offensive to Wal-Mart’s senior management team as well as Wal-Mart's employees.

2) The Holy Bible demands that readers discriminate against women. This type of sexual discrimination directly affects female employees working for Wal-Mart.

In 1 Timothy 2:11-12 the Bible says: “Let a woman learn in silence with all submissiveness. I permit no woman to teach or to have authority over men; she is to keep silent.” See also statements like 1 Cor 14:34-35 and Numbers 31:14-18. These statements should be repugnant to every member of the Wal-Mart management team, since a large percentage of Wal-Mart's employees and managers are women.

3) The Holy Bible fully endorses slavery, which is today strictly illegal in the United States. The Bible also endorses such egregious behaviors as the beating of slaves.

In Leviticus 25:44 the Bible says: “Your male and female slaves are to come from the nations around you; from them you may buy slaves. You may also buy some of the temporary residents living among you and members of their clans born in your country, and they will become your property. You can will them to your children as inherited property and can make them slaves for life.” In Exodus 21:20 the Bible says: “If a man beats his male or female slave with a rod and the slave dies as a direct result, he must be punished, but he is not to be punished if the slave gets up after a day or two, since the slave is his property.” Statements like Col. 3:22 and Titus 2:9 in the "New Testament" fully endorse slavery. Slavery is illegal in the United States, as is assault and battery, and the Holy Bible flagrantly disregards these statutes. Slavery is barbaric. A book that condones slavery is highly offensive.

4) The Holy Bible demands that readers murder homosexual men. The Holy Bible incites readers to commit hate crimes against innocent citizens.

In Leviticus 20:13 the Holy Bible commands: “If a man lies with a man as one lies with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They must be put to death.” The Holy Bible clearly incites its readers to commit murder. The Bible provokes hatred against, and threatens the lives of, innocent citizens in Wal-Mart communities across the nation.

5) The Holy Bible demands that readers murder those who do not believe in the “god” of the Bible.

In Leviticus 24:16 the Bible demands: “Anyone who blasphemes the name of the LORD must be put to death. The entire assembly must stone him.” See also 2 Chron 15:12-13 and Deut 13:12-16. In the “New Testament” of the Bible, the man known as Jesus also condemns all unbelievers. Since the majority of Earth's citizens, and a sizeable percentage of the citizens of the United States, do not believe in the "god" of the Bible, these statements are both highly offensive and dangerous.

We, the undersigned, recognize that any book which demands the death of innocent Wal-Mart employees, which commands sexual discrimination against women, which endorses slavery and the beating of slaves, which incites hate crimes against innocent citizens of the United States, and which demands the murder of people of other faiths, is so obscene that Wal-Mart should cease distribution of the book. The dictionary defines the word obscene in this way:

offensive to morality or decency; indecent; depraved. causing uncontrolled sexual desire. abominable; disgusting; repulsive.

The Bible fits this definition. Any book that incites murder, hate crimes and discrimination is offensive to morality and decency. It is apparent from the five examples listed above that the Bible is depraved, abominable, disgusting and repulsive.

Two years ago, according to this article in USA Today - Stewart finds controversy - Wal-Mart refused to distribute the #1 best-selling book “America”, by Jon Stewart. The reason cited was a nude photograph of the members of the Supreme Court. Wal-Mart felt that this photograph was obscene, so Wal-Mart chose not to distribute the book in its stores.

In Jon Stewart’s book, it is obvious that the intent is comedy. The Bible, on the other hand, is deadly serious and is frequently cited as an authoritative justification for discrimination and hatred. For example, the Bible was cited as an authoritative justification for slavery during the American Civil War. Readers of the Holy Bible act on its discriminatory statements every day. A book that openly demands the murder of millions of innocent Americans, that directly discriminates against women and that fully condones slavery and the beating of slaves is outrageously obscene. By Wal-Mart's own obscenity standards, as well as by the standards of civilized society, a book such as the Holy Bible has no place on the shelves of any Wal-Mart store.

Some Wal-Mart customers may argue such attributes as "wide readership" and "historical precedence" in order to maintain the Bible in Wal-Mart's inventory. They may also argue that removal of the Bible from Wal-Mart's shelves represents censorship or an attempt to "ban the Bible." It is important to note that we, the undersigned, do not advocate censorship. Nor is Wal-Mart "banning the Bible." The removal of the Bible from Wal-Mart's distribution network simply acknowledges the reality of the situation: many parts of the Bible are transparently obscene, and Wal-Mart (like most retailers) has a longstanding policy on obscene material. No book, regardless of popularity, has the right to endanger lives by directly and undeniably inciting its readers to commit murder and hate crimes.

We, the undersigned, trust that you, Mr. Scott, will look at the five examples listed above and recognize the deep and systemic problems found in the Holy Bible, along with the highly offensive, obscene and illegal nature of its content. We request that you work within your organization to expediently remove this book from Wal-Mart’s distribution chain.

Couple more youtube stupidities:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dmvm-lYvb1U

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vkXOwBIRX7Y

http://debunkingchristianity.blogspot.com/2006/08/apostle-pauls-use-of-analogy.html -- entry on the Loftus blog that shows exceptional idiocy in the use of Hyam Maccoby

http://www.djournal.com/pages/story.asp?ID=226902&pub=1&div=Lifestyles -- A screwy racist church.

http://www.armorofgodpjs.com/ -- the commercialization speaks for itself.

squall: But to say God is an entity (or BEing) violates the idea that God creates everything, i.e. every entity.

n0star:OMYGOODNESS More better then thous' comming out of the wood works! And with some more simple minded logic and ignorance! "Hey let me quote the whole passage in a bible study attempt to attack his credibility, I'll also toss in he should lay off the drugs HAHAH I'm so friggin smart it hurts! The lord sure did bless me with understanding and logic!"

you too can get up off my grill with your weak attacks on the theory. Paul in corinthians was talking about the MANNA in the passage I quoted, your taken the time to type out the rest of the passages doesn't degrade my initial post. Paul reffered to the MANNA as SPIRITUAL FOOD, like I said.

You proved nothing, not even a little bit, zip, nadda, nothing. PAUL REFFERED TO THE MANNA AS SPIRITUAL FOOD IDIOT! You know that little refrence section, you know, in the middle of the page? next to the passage there should be a small letter corrispoding with the refrence in the middle. got it? let me give you a minute to find it, you might have to call your preacher over to give you a hand.

Bishadi:: Life did not begin with Adam and Eve but atoms and energy and once you have a molecule being of energy upon the structure all the rules apply, from there forth, notwithstanding the sole (consciousness… well it’s how we break the rules of instinct), and the lovely end towards immortality, nothing fancy just a bunch of change, energy is not used or consumed, conserved, but never used up and sisappear....

If a photon is split and each are an infinite distance apart are they still entangled? Yep. I’ll regard to distance in a vacuum. This is the ‘c’ buster. Spooky? I like to see this as the phenomena of going 4D and this same property will describe prophecy and dejavu.

If a molecular structure has a resonance will it align with the same? Arbitrarily or of purpose? Ah! So environment can affect purpose! This is a confirming fact of evolution and you are one of the first to see this representation so versus arguing take a little time to do your own homework within your own resources....

So with a few new areas to apply what we identify as entropy is suspect within specific wavelength to structure systems. Some systems will not give up the goods. It’s almost like it wants to exist or live, have you ever heard such a things? I think it was Frankenstein. Now bring these into physical application, I want to live and why do I or we, this group of structures, do we exist and maintain intent? We are alive and like all life we continue with intent to maintain our resource and now look at what describes a living thing. Life abusing entropy.

sylvius: jph is an unbeliever, like the inhabitants of Nazaret.

Noach's ark has measurement of 300x50X30 cubits, which constitutes the word "lashon", tongue. "lashon" written "lamed-shin-nun" . if you object the "nun" is at the end and not in the middle, then you're right, but i can explain. (the ark was lifted up by the flood and touched the 50th cubit at the highest level since it was with eleven cubits submerged in the waters, and the mountains were fifteen cubits high an the highest level was 15 cubits above the mountains -- see for this Rashi on Genesis 8: 4 and further, http://www.chabad.org/library/artic...&showrashi=true) Tongue is flesh. Flesh, Hebrew "basar", root of "besorah" = gospel.

Da Lone-Warrior: I had a vision last night that President George W Bush might read Greg Boyd's book, "The Myth of a Christian Nation" and be convicted strongly over the ways he has used Christian-Speak as president. I don't care how exactly it would affect him, just so long as it did affect him as a president and how he portrayed white USEvangelicals to the world...

Squeakybro with a Bronze in the downhill slaloms: When Jesus is put back into the world He will carry the title of God. But that hasnt happened yet. Now has it

bigsplit: Hypocrits....read Matthew chapter 6, Christians should be outraged....OUTRAGED I tell ya. I know I would be extremely pissed if my son were exposed to the public prayers by anyone in his school. It is forbidden by Christ himself. So if "ForHimAlone" is an accurate characature you should be outraged as well. Or is inculturation of Christianity more important than the words of Christ himself on the proper way to pray.

The prayer over the wine and bread, was a blessing. The prayer in John 17 was also prayer for them specifically to see and hear. The purpose was so that they would know his relationship with God....and it certainly was not in "Public" as in the public schools, or Roman Courts, or even in the Temple. It was among him and his disciples so that they could see.

hereoisreal: The fact is I am sitting in a chair, in my hometown, in my country, on this planet, in this solar system of the Milky Way, within our galaxy cluster of a wall of such clusters in this Universe. Everything I see, feel, hear, taste, smell, think revolves around me.

Actually, every normal person has six senses, contacts with reality. Jesus could have said, “She’s not dead. She’s lost her contacts.” We do also when we “sleep”.

If there was no such thing as light, there would be no need for an eye, much less two. Nor feet and balance if there was no ground. (BTW, a snake crawls.)

If someone agreed to work for a penny a day for six days, (the seventh is a day off), they would, or should, receive 6 cents pay.

Each of our senses has a zero, reference point, in the middle. Try this: Take six pennies and place them around the seventh (resting point, you) and see if they “fit”. Man’s sixth sense is balance. It’s in the inner ear with a separate nerve to the brain and has nothing to do with hearing. God loves balance and that’s the reason every living thing, and fossils too, are symmetrical, like the center of heaven. Also like the name of the mother of all living, “Eve”. Also like the creator’s name , “I Am that I Am”