It's time for the 2006 Platinum Screwball Awards, and those will be at the bottom of this page. In the meantime, here's the folks who tried for the 2007 Awards.

From the Mailbag

We start with one from Sam Harris Chicken Liver Hit 'n Run Apologetics Department:

In weighing your position against the position of WDGHA, I find you using the very arguments WDGHA asserts you might use in defending your delusion: principal of those that the Bible is simply too complex for common people to understand. That argument flies in the face of what is claimed in the bible in God's own words and/or on behalf of God by others. If as a country, we in the USA claim to live "under God," and if it requires an advanced degree to understand what that means, then what God has created is at best a bad joke, and at worst the cause of death and suffering for the past 6000 years the universe has existed.

I think it is going to be challenging for the monotheistic religions to maintain any foothold in global society over time, and I personally can't wait until Christianity and Islam both come to screeching halts concerning their influence on humankind. I believe that a book may someday be written entitled The Origin of Rationality in the Breakdown of Spirituality (salute to J. Jaynes) that will discuss the emergence of a new understanding of a civilized mind based on the realities the human race is facing. The old words that have driven humanity to this point in its culture are long overdue for revamping.

Christianity offers nothing but more of the same, and this is in the face of Islam that offers noting but more of the same, and together Jesus and Muhammad will end up being the death of us all if we don't recognized the evil underlying the delusions associated with them and cast them out of human civilization once and for all.

For me personally today, the death of a dozen school girls in Iraq by way of a mortar shell illuminates the absurdity, pathology, and presumptuousness of a belief in a Christian God and in an Islamic God - either one and both together. This destruction of children today is not the result of any plan of any mind, spirit, or being in this universe. This tragedy is the result of two delusional views of a supreme being colliding in a way that has torn these children limb from limb - there is no argument from God/Christ or any of his delusional followers/interpreters that can make this kind of behavior understandable. Ripping children apart with mortars is beyond evil; in fact, it is intolerably profound cruelty and I will work to debunk its cause, the crazy followers of God, Christ, and Muhammad from now until the day I die.

I believe my credentials, which I needn't divulge to you, meet the absurd standards you describe in your web page as necessary to understand the Bible.

Do not bother responding to this email. In the case you do, you will receive no reply.

Sam Harris' Fan Club also sent this one in:

I like your response to Harris' "Letter to a Christian Nation,"etc. You don't have any facts so you resort to goofy cartoons. Attacking the messenger is a good way to discredit yourself.

Anyway, If Christ will forgive you for any sin, he will forgive you for murder and suicide. Well, don't you want to be with God? Don't you want your wife and kids to come with you? Come on, now, this life is sinful and miserable. The end times are almost here! Kill your wife and kids, then kill yourself! Afraid? You shouldn't be. You've prepared yourself for this your whole life. Now is the time to be with God! Jesus forgives all sin.

I can hardly wait. Nukes start going off in Israel, New York, all over. You Christians are all jumping up and down, praying etc. but the rapture doesn't happen. You get to live in this hell on earth that your religions created. Maybe THEN you will see that it is all a fairy tale. Folklore to keep the slaves in line.

I deny the "holy spirit." I deny the bible, the koran, etc. Don't be fooled.

Want a "near death" experience? Try general anesthesia. No time, no dreams, nothing. When the brain is shut off there is no perception and nothing to perceive anything. Death is oblivion. Praise the Lord!

LIVE NOW! THIS LIFE IS ALL THERE IS! WAKE UP!

- A****

PS: Actually READ Dundes' book: "Holy Writ as Oral Lit." He says he "respects" the Bible but winds up taking it apart. This book, more than Harris, Dawkins, etc. made me a "born again atheist" - actually an "antitheist." I don't like any religion. It is the earliest form of crowd control - authoritarianism. Read "The Gnostic Gospels" by Elaine Pagels.

PPS: God is real. It (I couldn't see any genitals) came to me in a vision (no drugs, mind you) and showed me that this reality is all we get. I had been thinking about becoming a Christian but decided not to. It is too illogical.

PPPS: I've always thought football was a gay ritual. A guy reaching between another guy's legs for a ball? EEEW! I hated it in school.

One can see why it might be best to just let Harris, Dawkins et al. talk -- they'll self-implode and do the job of refutation for us. Then there is this from the Society of Blissful Unawareness:

I visited your website. I have read some of your materials and if we can do better than personal incredulity at the conclusions of evolutionary theory and resorting to logical fallacies (circular reasoning and others) to support our points, well that's just....sad. Where is the historical and archaeological evidence of the bible and its events? Or the existence of Jesus?

However, I have already examined a whole lot of theistic claims, and I've probably already read your "library" of commentaries and apologetics, but hopefully you've brought something new to the table that can actually stand up to scrutiny. I'm open to the possibility that you can do just that.

The ball's in your court.

And now, from the Christian side, the Manic Dispensation League wrote:

The people that we (The World know as jews) are NOT the chosen people we read about in the Bible...Read the 13th Trible by Kessler.It cost him his life.He was deported by Israel,and later assassinated by the MOSSAD in England.Modern day jews were NEVER sold into slavery !!! African Americans were.Jews in Israel are the foremost problem in the world today."WE CONTROL AMERICAN The jewish people,AND THE AMERICAN PEOPLE KNOW IT" Arial Sharon....NO Congresmen,nor Senator made a remark to this Blasphamy.

Israel controls American lock,stock,and barrel.And for this,America will be Destroyed.Jesus said,in the latter days,there come those that say they are jews,but,are not,for THEY do lie, they are from a synagog of SATAN,for I AM gladly going to satin my GARMENT with they're blood,for when IM done,there will NOT be,man,woman,nor Child left.!!!! JESUS is going to WIPE the false jews OFF the FACE of THE Earth.What a day that will BE.Modern day jews are Edomites.....they are just what they call themselves (jewish),acting like jews,but are NOT.

Case and point,if you call someone childish,that MEANS they are Acting like a CHILD.Jewish people act like JEWS but ARE NOT! They claim a heretage that is NOT there's,they claim a LAND that Do NOT Belong to them."there will be NO peace in the land until the CHILDREN have returned"Everyday there is fighting in the middle east.That's because the land is NOT there's.GOD has a plan,and this plan does NOT include jews.JESUS is going to kill so many jews,there will NOT be enough people to bury the bodies,"for i will send the beast of the field to consume they're flesh"

The Arabs won't have to turn Israel into a parking lot,JESUS is going to do IT....

Back the other way, an email that proves Atheism Makes You Stupid:

I find it ironic that when an atheist says there is no God, Christians respond that that position is impossible to prove because you can't prove a negative--a hypothesis can't be disproved by claiming there is no proof, because the proof may simply be undiscovered. Yet on your site you scoffingly say that because there is no "real" (by your definition) proof that Pope Leo made this statement, it can't be true.

The events surrounding this controversy occurred 500 years ago (give or take). There is no way anyone alive today can know exactly what Pope Leo said in this matter. For all we know, he may have made the comment to Bales personally, who then used it in his play. But to say that because Bales used it in a satire it can't be true strikes me as ridiculous. The only logical position to take on this matter is that no one knows for sure.

As a side note, I find it somewhat appalling that a supposed Christian, someone who by definition is supposed to be "Christ-like", would be so negative, insulting, and rude to others who happen to believe differently that you do. Everyone has a right to there own beliefs, and God has proclaimed himself the only one qualified to judge anyone in matters of the soul. I realize that many atheists are themselves rude and abusive, but the Bible clearly encourages its followers to turn the other cheek, to love others, and to lead by example. If we all followed your example, the world would be a sorry place indeed.

The Acharya/Harpur Axis also had something to say:

I would like to start off by excusing the following which some might view as "impertinence", but what I am about to say must be said. I believe that it is unfair for religious fanatics like yourself to go around spreading false truths. To say that Osiris copied Jesus? I think you need to do a little more homework on the subject. Did they steal Amen (Amen-Ra) too? I think you will learn that Osiris, as well as many other, triplet God myths existed in Egypt, and many other countries, before Jesus even came into existence. If you already know, shame on you. Only a close-minded religious drone could possibly take fact and turn it into romantic fiction to suit the needs of their own agenda, or Christ's (IE- I don't really think he needs your help). What about Brahma, Vishnu, Shiva? They stole it from Jesus too, huh. What a lovely coincidence. Please, before you try to become the "good shepherd" of your own flock, triple check your foundation. Thank you for your time.

And finally, from the American Psychological Association, a recommendation for special therapy:

gee, what bitter vitriol and animosity on your website

how sad your life must be.

people who write like you sometimes is a sign they just need a good ****.

i have a life. improve yours - get rid of the vitriol.


Starting this month, we'll also post here TWeb candidates for future Platinum. Ikkyu is the first candidate for 2007 TWeb N00b award, as does pladecalvo, while member11491 enters as a TWeb vet (now in his 2nd year) as does Sevivon1913.

Fudge Not Lest Ye Make Fudge

Charles T. Keefe of Oakville, Ontario, Canada, wins Gold for the following letter to the National Post on Saturday, Jan. 13:

Reid Fowler observes in his letter that Jehovah's Witnesses do not accept the doctrine of the Trinity. That is quite true. But to say that they are not Christian is nonsensical. The Christian Church did not adopt the doctrine of the Trinity until the time of Constantine.

The "Reverend" should re-read Jesus' Sermon on the Mount, in which he admonished listeners not to take a judgmental attitude, for "with the same judgement with which you judge, so shall it be judged to you." God alone decides who is and who is not a Christian.

The French philosopher Blaise Pascal once observed, "Men never commit evil so willingly and cheerfully as when they do so from religious conviction."

Let's see....'the same judgment with which you judge...' Does the other person believe Jesus is God? Check. Does the other person believe that you have to believe Jesus is God in order to be a Christian? Check.

Therefore, there is no "judgment" problem.

Why Abortion is a Good Idea

Bagger Vance offers this startling revelation:

Did you know that the leading cause of death is being born?
Letting Them Speak for Themselves

Sometimes, if you just let an atheist rant, they'll do the job for us....Harris....Dawkins....and on a reader's blog, "cory":

I'm the 2454 person to visit this blog huh, pretty weak P dunny. Obviously there is no help for you, you quote scripture like it wasn't written by douche bags 800 years after your main character was killed by the Romans, thats a long time. Does God talk to you when you write this stuff, like they talked to the idiots that wrote the bible? Your fear of eternal damnation brought on by a supposedly ever loving all knowing being is a ridiculous way to travel through life. If you don't post this i will know you are a hypocrite, and won't that be ironic that you and Brain share more than you know, since you think he doesn't want people to see you tiny insignificant Also if the language doesn't suit your site censor me you fascist. One last thing and really the only question I want you point of view on. Do you believe the Universe is between 6 and 12 thousand years old? (assuming you know that is what the bible has taught fundamentalist Christians since it's inception) I have a one word question for you and your buddies; Dinosaurs? Please explain, because I know you won't find a sentence in the bible relating to this, what do you think? Take your time....
OK YOU WIN IM A CHRISTIAN NOW Ok so which one of the 33,830 Christian denominations in the world should I chose from? I better get it right, or maybe I could try for one of the other 10,000 religions recognized by the World Christian Encyclopedia. I was wrong about the 800 years. But you live your life wrong every day, so chalk up another victory for good vs. evil and God and pals. I don't believe swearing makes people seem less intelligent, I let their antiquated belief system do that for them. Do disclose your political affiliations to people on I have only one guess. God should heal amputees to prove that he is real, that or get back to Earth stat. I hate God and I hate people like you and I am allowed cause I choose free will.
You will never change, you will call me a [expletive] in so many words declare victory. Your a worthless human and I should be so lucky to have the rapture come and my body burn with fire and brimstone. I am not afraid to die, can you really say the same? Looking forward to your speech on the weaknesses of my argument. The point is I was high when I wrote the first comment and now I see your not worth arguing with at all. You should listen to BILL HICKS stand up. "Your ignorance is beneath you and thanks to psychedelic drugs, I can see through you."
a fake easter bunny in the sky will never heal someone he cannot that is the answer. there is no hope for you patrick and will undoubtedly die without having experienced a full fruitful life having served god for most of it, are you a republican? where you molested as a youth? are you parents still married? have you ever been laid? are you a repressed closet homosexual? do you reject the science that brought you the home computer? have you been shovel feed this bull since you were born? do you live in middle america? how many hours a week do you devote to god? including church prayer, and judging. are you also a racist? why are we on earth first, why doesn't god just skip the bull and just ask the important question? do you like the documentary "Jesus Camp". do you think the war the US is waging on "terrorists" is a ideological fight between "good and evil"? do take medication? why was Mary such a lying slut? How many traffic tickets do you have? Do you speed and think God can't see you? Why is the bible your scientific textbook when you don't believe the anti-religious books that are also written by mortal men? Do you believe the slavery propagated in the bible is a good way to live your life also? Do you identify with other big name Christians; the KKK, Pat Roberts, George W Bush, Bill O'reilly, Ann Coulter? Do you believe in the separation of church and state? Why do insist on being such a stupid, small minded ----?
I censored myself for most of this because It seems to be distracting you somehow. How old are you Patrick? I ask so many questions because I want to know as much as I can about your type of person. It's obvious that your an intelligent person. Something tells me you still have a lot of growing to do. Do you look up to G W Bush? Information is not the end all be all life requires a great amount of experience also, which it is apparent you lack in a bit. I would like to hear the evidence you offer for the resurrection of Jesus Christ. I also want to know how far away from Virgina you have traveled. Have you left this great country of ours and been someplace maybe out of your element? I don't think Virgina counts as middle America, but your defiantly further East then I expected. Was this whole Blog created because of Brain or did it morph into this because of Brain? How do you know without mentioning faith that you are 100% correct, and since your next question will probably be how I am so sure that I am correct. I don't, but I also have never been afraid or believed in something that was intangible.
I wish I could do some mushrooms with you. I think you would have fun and for sure you would learn something about yourself. I believe that Organized Religion on the whole was created to control, to keep people from questioning too much, oh you may question but your infected with a virus that eats reason and spits out complacency. Do you listen to only Christian music? Do you listen to music created by anyone between the 60's and 70's? Do you like being a sheep, do you consult God on everyone of life's decisions? If you do, you do not experience life to it's fullest. Are you waiting for marriage for you know? Do you have a girlfriend? Do you masturbate? If you were born into a godless atheist family would you somehow feel you were missing something in your life? How bad would your life have to be, for you to entertain the possibility that there isn't a god watching over you? Have you seen this video: http://www3.youtube.com/watch?v=qKb1LXxKNHY
Just His Brain is Zombiefied

"member11491" tries out for TWeb Vet Platinum in 2007 with this:

From Merriam-Webster's online dictionary:

Zombie: the body of a dead person given the semblance of life, but mute and will-less, by a supernatural force, usually for some evil purpose.

Now, let's see what the bible says. First 1) dead person given semblance of life NASB: The tombs were opened, and many bodies of the saints who had fallen asleep were raised; (NASB ©1995) GWT: The tombs were opened, and the bodies of many holy people who had died came back to life. (GOD'S WORD®) KJV: And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose, ASV: and the tombs were opened; and many bodies of the saints that had fallen asleep were raised; BBE: And the resting-places of the dead came open; and the bodies of a number of sleeping saints came to life; DBY: and the tombs were opened; and many bodies of the saints fallen asleep arose,

So what's the common theme here? The BODIES of the saints arose. A dead person given semblance of life could not be a more perfect description of dead, decaying bodies rising from the dead. Notice the passage does not say the bodies were flawless or were undecayed. Dead, decaying, reanimated BODIES are described here (sort of like JP the hutt's body).

Now let's look at the rest of the definition of zombie and of the passage.

the body of a dead person given the semblance of life, but mute and will-less, by a supernatural force, usually for some evil purpose.

NASB: and coming out of the tombs after His resurrection they entered the holy city and appeared to many. (NASB ©1995) GWT: They came out of the tombs after he had come back to life, and they went into the holy city where they appeared to many people. (GOD'S WORD®) KJV: And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many. ASV: and coming forth out of the tombs after his resurrection they entered into the holy city and appeared unto many. BBE: And coming out of their resting-places, after he had come again from the dead, they went into the holy town and were seen by a number of people. DBY: and going out of the tombs after his arising, entered into the holy city and appeared unto many.

Notice they didn't TALK? This is what we call "mute". The passage doesn't indicate if these zombies had free will or not, but since it was just a reanimated body I'll have to assume they didn't. Since they all rose up right after "JC" supposedly died this qualifies as a supernatural force.

Finally, were they risen for an evil purpose? I'll leave that up to you.

So to summarize: 1) dead person given semblance of life? check 2) mute? check 3) will-less? check 4) risen by a supernatural force? check 5) evil purpose? (not necessary according to the definition anyway) check

Looks like you people have some zombies on your hands.

Yes, we do...his name is member11491....

Insert Stereotype Here

pladecalvo makes a run at the TWeb N00b nomination with a variety of comments:

I would have thought that if some guy was going around performing miracles, raising people from the dead,walking on water etc, someone, somewhere would have recorded it(non-xtian).

So basically you're saying you know that Jesus existed because it says so in the Bible. This is a book that claims god exist, he can impregnate women, the child is then divine, can perform miracles, can bring dead to life, and this gods is waiting until we die when he will judge us and either send us to heaven or throw us into a lake of fire.

On top of those basic claims, there are hundreds of more claims that definitely are worth closer inspection. Zombies, talking animals, the earth being held up by pillars, god posessing bears to attack children, god ordering the deaths of hundreds of thousands of people, cities being destroyed, humans turned into salt pillars for looking at a city being destroyed, daughters having sex with their father, all animal species in the world fitting onto a manmade boat, a tower reaching to heaven, humans being made from clay, rods turning into snakes, and many, many others.

The sad thing is this. People to this day killing each other over these silly myths. These claims do not hold up to any kind of scientific study, be it archaeological, biological, historical, or any other kind of research.

It is illogical. You have no reason to think that the Bible is the word of God. In fact, there is reason to think that it's not. The Bible is chock full of errors and contradictions. If it was really the word of God, it wouldn't be.

The guy would have been 'front page news'. Scholars would have come from everywhere to see this miracle man. Scholars would have written shed loads of material about it.

The Church only preserved what fitted their beliefs. Why wouldn't a non-christian document have survived? I would have thought that such documents were the very things that the church would have preserved in order to prove their point. There is no record anywhere that supports this mans existence. There is no record of his miracles, his life or his death other than Xtian sources.

The story of Jesus is a pagan godman myth. Christianity was originally a pagan mystery religion. There were many pagan mystery religions. They date back millenia before the Jesus myth. Each had its own godman myth and the godman myths were all basically alike. So, what's a more reasonable explanation, that one of these myths came true millenia after it was created, or that the story of Jesus was taken from these earlier myths?

There is no evidence of the existence of Jesus. The Roman archives don't so much as mention him. And the Romans kept tons of records. If there had been someone named Jesus who was tried and executed in Judea, there would've been a record of it.

Christian burned the libraries in Alexandria so that people wouldn't learn the truth about their man-god.

Never Mind Blasphemy, Just Thinking is a Challenge

Rook Hawkins (eg Dork Dawkins) of "Rational Responders" when arrested with a JP Hold came up with this:

Okay, let me clue you in on JP Holding, because you're obviously under the impression that he knows something. REAL historians don't trust Holding, and with good reason.

*snipped quoting of Richard Carrier and Robert Price*

These are a mere few of the dozens of articles I could have drawn from to show Holding's inability to be honest, and most importantly, his inability to do any real independant research. Instead he throws around ad hominem attacks and dodges points, seems to make up arguments out of thin air, and when he doesn't want to do deal with somebody who actually knows what they are talking about - he sends his cronies like Frank Walton after them with nothing but slander and false accusations. That leaves Holding in the clear for Walton and others to take the blunt of everything (which is really unfair to them) and although they should know better - they can get into a lot of trouble in this manner.

And for the record, JP Holding has an open invitation to come on the Rational Response Squad when we get together to record and debate me - however for some reason he never actually acknowledges this challenge to him, and instead insists we haven't put it out there. So much for the honesty of Holding. But back to the point.

Your definition of faith is very slanted and uneducated.

Faith (American Heritage Dictionary) 1. Confident belief in the truth, value, or trustworthiness of a person, idea, or thing. 2. Belief that does not rest on logical proof or material evidence. See Synonyms at belief, trust.

Keep digging.

Yes Rook, we all define Greek words with English dictionaries, too. He also wins for his goshawful attempts at writing romance novels.

Brian Sapient of Rational Response Squad shares the award with this piece of "rational response...":

If I have free will, why can't I fly?

Because I can't fly, God clearly has placed restrictions on free will, and since he has why did he not restrict free will in such a way so that evil didn't have to exist?

He restricted us from flying, but didn't restrict us from murdering? Loving? I think not.

It's All Right To Be Stupid! I Have Practice!

Gold to Patrick Navas, an anti-Trinitarian who boastfully informed me of the publication of his book supposedly refuting the Trinity. When I checked and found that it used none of the top sources on the subject, and informed him he wasn't credible as a critic, he replied (note the bold from me):

These comments only verify that arrogance is the prevailing spirit behind so many traditional orthodox doctrines. This attitude is dissapointing but extremely common.

I have read numerous books written in defense of the Trinity. I simply chose to interact with some of the most well-known and respected, contemporary theologians in the evangelical world. James White may be the most active protestant apologist in the world (50+ debates). I highly doubt that Baukham's and Witherington's arguments are much different than any of the scholars I interact with. I have been studying this issue for quite some time. I'm very familiar with all of the arguments used to support the Trinity. This subject is not a mystery. Hundreds, if not thousands, of books have been written on this subject. But I'd be happy to look into the ones you mention.

I should point out that it is very difficult to understand how you could describe me as "another unqualified person who has no idea what he's talking about." These comments do nothing to futher your own credibility, as you have not even read the book and do not even know who I am. To simply denounce another person because they do not agree with your theological conclusions is very easy. It obviously takes much more effort to deal with the material and evidence the other person presents. I have no problem with you disagreeing with me or others on this or any other subject (you don't even know what my positive beliefs are), but I encourage you, for the future, to do so with humility, gentleness and respect, as the Scriptures themselves instruct us.

His degree, by the way, is a Bachelor's in history.

The January Sevivon Collection

Sevivon1913 makes an early run at 2007 Platinum, and it's not hard to see why. Here's a sample.

What if Jesus had been mugged and knifed to death at age 25 or had caught smallpox as a child and died (or aborted?); would his death still have the power to redeem? Or what if Jesus had been born into a society totally opposed to the death penalty.......how would he have gone about dying to redeem the world?

It seems to me that the following were non-essential to his death in serving as a 'sacrifice': The mode of execution; Date and duration. Therefore, is it accurate to assume that it was purely his willingness to be killed by others that made him a redeeming sacrifice? In which case, is it dependent on WHO killed him? For example, if he had been knifed to death by a robber or run over by a fast-moving chariot......or was it necessary that he be killed by wicked people?

However, if we look at what is required under Jewish law for a sacrifice we will find that the location of the execution and the identity of the executed individual were very important. Firstly, the sacrifices were to be - as commanded by God - carried out in the Temple and human sacrifice was explicitely forbidden.

The point of the question is: if the actual manner of the execution of Jesus was contrary and alien to the Jewish concept of sacrificial offering, and if the redeeming power of his death was not dependent on crucifixion.........what exactly was it about his execution that would make it a "sacrificial offering" as opposed to an act of martyrdom?

It seems that he could have just as easily jumped off a cliff to redeem the world, because no part of his actual execution can be called - under Jewish law - a valid sacrifice for our sins.

Would it be the Christian, Egyptian, or Hindu trinity that you have in mind? Either way, they all violate: Exodus 34:1; Deuteronomy 6:4, 4:35; Isaiah 45:35-7, 45:21; Daniel 3:29; 1 Kings 8:60; Etc, etc, etc. "Hear, O Israel: The Lord is our God; the Lord is one." (Deut. 6:4). "On that day will the Lord be one and His name one" (Zech. 14:9).

What translations, exactly, were made prior to the middle ages? I think you'll find that Hebrew has been the only language which the Tanakh has been preserved in. The "Septuagent" was a forgery by the Church -- the original only covered the 5 books of Moses and even that translation was only a legend.

That said, I've not seen any evidence that the Hebrew text has been altered at ANY time. Translations have mistranslated it into different languages, but the original Hebrew still survives.

There is an unbroken apostolic link between Moses and the present day Rabbis (all over the world as far as Mumbai, with the same Hebrew text, I might add....

Only a very marginal number of people beleived that Isaiah 53 referred to the messiah in the 1st Century -- they were probably Jewish converts to Christianity. Any others represent the Jewish population about as much as Left-handed, Pink-haired, three-eyed Raelians represent planet Earth's population.

The change from Isaiah 53 as refering to Israel to being about the messiah came about with the Septuagint and the Christian era. It was changed by Christians, as evidenced by the fact that the alteration only occured in the Christian translations and not in the actual original Hebrew texts. Hebrew texts are not "translations".

The Dead Sea Scrolls were written by a marginal little group of schizophrenic weirdos. Who cares what they believed?

One God in three essences" ...ok, maybe I don't understand the trinity. But I still see the words "one" and "three" in the same phrase. BTW, as an Orthodox Christian: is the Holy Spirit male, female or neutral?

What is an "essence" and where are the borders that distinguish one from the other two; bearing in mind that, at the same time, they are one and the same God?

The Hindu Trinity = 3 in 1. They are all manifestations ("essences") of Brahma. But I'm not interested in Hinduism; Christianity is far more important.

There most certainly IS a conspiracy. It comes down to this: a) ALL JEWS are engaged in a conspiracy to reject Christianity; disprove it and cover-up evidence that points to it or b) CHRISTIANS are engaged in a conspiracy to manufacture proof of Christianity; cover-up all record of the truth (i.e. Hebrew scriptures) and to defame and sling mud at Jews so nobody will believe them.

.......give me a good reason why I should view Jews as liars, and not Christians (who, by the way, have a long history of lying)? I suppose the fact that there has NEVER been a mass conversion of Jews to Christianity (and certainly not among those who know Hebrew fluently) doesn't make you curious?

oh you think i carry the works of plato with me? it was enough to have to read his trash once. if its really important to you i will consult my library tommorow for it.

I don't see your point. I AM EUROPEAN. I am refering to Graeco-Roman western culture. Plato never contributed anything of value to Norse, Romani, Jewish, Anglo-Saxon, Celtic cultures. Graeco-Romanism hasn't had a long lasting impact on anything except Christianity.

Culture from Italy = trash / inferior

Culture from Greece = trash / inferior

Anglo-Saxon and Celtic Europe was far more progressive. Face it: nobody NEEDS plato.

The Weird Is Coming to an End

aladastr earns Gold for the following:

Have you ever wondered what Heaven would be like, if you would ever get there, what you would do there and who you meet? The answers are already in the Bible! For example, Jesus raised people from the dead, so followers of Jesus could also raise people from the dead. Jesus walked on water, so followers of Jesus could also walk on water. In fact with faith, followers of Jesus could do anything.

So why don't they? Well, do people follow Jesus? - that is the first question. A careful look at the Bible and comparing it with society suggests not - after all, Jesus did not go into churches and participate in pointless traditions - in fact he denounced them and overturned the money tables and accused the teachers of the Law of hypocrisy.

Why then do Christians engage in similar behaviour to those teachers of the Law? Looking at the Bible we see that much of it was written by a man called Paul, on whose letters the modern day church system is based. Paul was not an eyewitness of Jesus, yet he sets up the church traditions and advocates payment of priests! So can someone who accepts and follows Paul be classed as a follower of Jesus?

What does it mean to be a follower of Jesus? Does it mean to accept the teachings of the Apocrypha, the Pope, your priests, other Christians, historical Saints, the Apostles, church traditions, Moses and the Ten Commandments - or does it simply mean to do what Jesus says? Clearly it just means to do what Jesus says. Following Jesus is precisely that - doing what he says. So what does he say? Jesus says a lot of things, but mostly his teachings are focused on helping the poor, sick and outcasts to society. Love the Lord your God and love your neighbour as yourself. Loving the Lord includes rejection of teaching that goes against what Jesus says, and that includes the teaching of Paul. Loving your neighbour as yourself includes helping the huge number of people in the world who live in poverty; give them food, heal them, provide sanitation and clean water and proper housing. Loving your neighbour as yourself also includes teaching others to do the same (follow Jesus, reject teaching that says differently and help the poor).

It would be great if people would follow Jesus just because it is the right thing to do; unfortunately the "common sense" prejudices of society view true self-sacrificial living, love and following Jesus to be "foolish" and people overwhelmingly choose to believe in Paul (whose letters state that you don't need to follow Jesus because everything's a free gift from God). The teachings of Jesus are seen by most to be too difficult (give up what you have and follow him). Yet God will honour and help all those who follow him to the extent that they don't need to worry about where their food or clothing is coming from.

This creates a huge problem. Essentially half the world bears the sins of the other half, and the half that causes the suffering won't accept that they are doing this, and flatly refuse to follow Jesus, purely because that is the established tradition over thousands of years and because Paul says you don't have to. If you don't believe me then think about it - how many people do you know that do what Jesus says to do? Be honest with yourself. A priest might look good in his fancy clothing, but in actual fact he is being paid to teach a religion that involves directing money, time and resources into his or her own wage and into the church building - not into helping the poor.

So it is time to enact a change in society. A tsunami has been predicted to occur on the 1st of April 2007, which will kick start the end time events. Hopefully the miracle of prediction, the beginning of fulfillment of Bible prophesy and the proof shown on the website (http://worldends.co.uk) will encourage people to follow Jesus and in doing so, help those who are in suffering.

Eatin' in Egypped

Eden in Egypt: A Translation of the Book of Genesis from the Original Egyptian Text by Ralph Ellis wins Gold. Ellis is definitely in the More Than One Screw Loose category, as well as not having seen his own marbles for many a year. Here's a description of this latest book:

The story of Adam and Eve from the Book of Genesis is perhaps one of the best known stories in circulation, even today, and yet nobody really knows where this tale came from or what it means. But even a cursory glance at the text will demonstrate the origins of this tale, for the river of Eden is described as having four branches. There is only one river in this part of the world that fits this description, and that is the Nile; with the four branches forming the Nile Delta. Here, then, is the true crucible for the Genesis story - Egypt. We already know that Judaism was based upon the reign of the pharaoh Akhenaton, because the solitary Judaic god was known as Adhon while this pharaoh's solitary god was called Aton or Adjon. But on reading the early chapters of Genesis with a more critical eye, it became apparent that this story was simply a retelling of Pharaoh Akhenaton's 'Hymn to the Aton'.

Also nominated for secondary Screwies are the various readers who submitted their words of wisdom as reviews:

Mr. R. J. Alexander The idea that Aknnaten and his queen were actually Adam and Eve is completely and totally ridiculous. The time frames alone make it a complete nonsense. Akhnaten may well have been Moses, there are some connections there, but Adam? The only modern commentary on the origins of "The Adam" (The Earthling) that joins astute scholarship with scientific rationality comes from Zecharia Sitchen, the Sumerian scholar, in his wonderful (and life-changing) series of books, The Earth Chronicles....
Rebecca Some of Ralph Ellises work is mindblowing, the work of genius. Some if it is just favoured theories built around wild guesses. Mr Ellis may *like* the idea of Arkenaten and Nefertiti being Adam and Eve but there is no evidence for this, his evidence is called grasping at straws. It is ridiculous. While I have no doubt Eden was in Egypt (the descriptions in the Book of Jubilees indicate this http://www.logoschristian.org/eden.html) or that Hebrew was based on Egyptian, or that the Jewish religion originated in Egypt, Arkenaten and Nefertiti bear as much resemblance to Adam and Eve as do Guinevere and Arthur. Spend your money on one of Ralph Ellises other books - in Jesus he proves Abraham and the other Patriachs were Egyptian Pharoahs, in Solomon he proves King David was an Egyptian Pharoah, for this he should be acknowledged as the greatest historian of our time. Some of his other claims should be taken with a pinch of dead sea salt.
A Reader, calling it "Wonderful New Insight" The main argument in this book is that the Book of Genesis was derived from the Hymn to the Aten, and so Adam and Eve were Akhenaton and Nefertiti. It is a revolutionary idea; one that undermines everything we have been taught about the biblical texts....

Finally, special Lifetime Achievement Gold to several people on TWeb, such as Soundsurfr and Crusdaer, who complained about the Screwball Awards:

Look, Nick - if you think that getting together once a month to vote on who among you you can publicly label as a screwball is not demeaning to anyone, then fine. To me, that speaks to your character. Just my opinion.

I think if you happen to teach a Sunday school class now or in the future, you should start it up there too. Show the children how enjoyable it can be to discuss who in the class or congregation is "jerk of the week" or "idiot of the week" or something fun like that. Explain how the practice promotes "Christian values". Should be interesting.

Actually, I DO often share some of the screwist material when I teach Sunday School....and they love it. For example, in close, this from shunydragon:

JPH generally uses obfuscation and simply dismises all alternative worldviews that appeal to rational, logical and scientific arguments. The biography and life of Julius Ceasar may have contributed to story of the life of Jesus found in the gospels

okieshowedem picks up the Solo Paranoia Award for this in a thread titled, "Saddest thing, the Scriptures warned us to stay away from all churches.":

When the vale is lifted and we are given eyes to see. We understand that Father Yahweh nor His Messiah would not have nothing to do with any Church. When we study to show ourselves approved we too will stop going to these evil places.

When asked for a reference, he supplied Deut. 12:5.

When you start with a lie you can not end up with the truth. Any and all translations that has the Name of the Creator removed from Gen.1:1 is doomed from the beginning. The Torah reads " In the beginning yod heh waw heh ( YAHWEH ) created the heavens and the earth." Find out who removed this Holy Name and why, then your eyes will be open.

cheaande wins the Sexaholic Award for this comment:

"Well, JC's healing of a Roman centurion's slave( servant) could be seen as condoning pedophilia. If Jesus had cared much about this issue, he would probably have made a point of discussing it in this context. There was often a sexual relationship between Roman Centurions and their servant(slave) boys. Jesus heals the boy without asking any questions about the nature of their relationship. If this were a big issue of concern for Jesus, this would have been the prime time to raise it. (Luke 7:1-10)"

nickcopernics wins the Sterling Honesty Tropht for this startling admission:

Yes, indeed. WE ARE stupid fools. We need attention. The difference between us and theists, though, is we don't tend to hijack airplanes and kill thousands of people in the name of a god that probably dosen't exist.

Desirae picks up the Forced Dichotomy Medal for:

Jesus said our forgiveness of others was a requirement for our forgiveness by God.

However, Apostle Paul said our forgiveness of others was to merely be from gratitude to God, and was not a requirement for our personal forgiveness by God.

Do you see the contradiction?

Matthew 18:35, "So shall my heavenly Father also do to you if each of you does not forgive his brother from the heart." This is Jesus' statement to the issue about the pardoned slave not forgiving his own debtor.

Mark 11:25 gives a parallel command from Jesus, "Forgive, if you have anything against anyone; so that your Father also who is in heaven may forgive you your transgressions."

Ephesians 4:30 has the order of forgiveness reversed, "Forgiving each other, just as god in Christ has forgiven you."

Paul changed our forgiveness from God being dependent upon our forgiveness of others, as Jesus said, to our forgiveness of others being dependent upon God's forgiveness to us.

Prince Caspian over at IMDB earns the Mr. Roarke Award for Excellence in Exegetical Fantasy with:

I guess I missed that part where Aslan instructed the children to teach that other faiths are evil, and not allow men marriage to men, and to invade other lands for oil and money in the name of democracy. Must have been in his next book: the Land of Revelations.

Quit trying to tell everyone that everything good has to do with your religion- the one that carries a shameful and bloodied trail that goes back for thousands of years and continues on today!

As far as I can see, Lewis was a Christian, and he found inspiration for his writing in his faith. But his stories are not to propagate today's popular religion, but to provide a clear universal demonstration of morality. However, Jesus never suggested war. Lewis only used violence as a story force. He never suggested burning witches, he said to fight injustice and murder. Please don't suggest to me that Christianity owns that.

What I see here is an example of common religious snobbery. There isn't any such thing as 'good christian values' when all the religion does is only for prosylitizing and domination. There is only cultural values, and fairness. When people realize the bandwagon the religous right pushes on everyone is one without wheels and is driven by whipping all who have less voice, it makes you want to check again what exactly Jesus taught.

In many ways, the analogy is accurate in today's society. There is a big evil witch, and those who follow knowlingly. And there are many who are blind or scared. and then there are those who are repressed and struggling for freedom and justice. Christians are NOT repressed, they do the repressing. You can be righteous only when you are doing the right thing. wwjd indeed!

John Loftus earns his first award, The Mixed Metaphor Trophy, of 2007 for a thread titled: "The Arrogance of JP Holding and his Pied Pipers!" (The metaphor is wrong. The pied piper is the leader. The thread title should be, "JP Holding and his Rats of Hamelin".) And Brooks Trubee (jimbo) earns his first, the Who Wants to be a Millionaire Award. When someone said:

Here's the thing: If there is even an ounce of truth behind religious beliefs then they will continue for as long as man walks the earth. That's the part you skeptics never want to acknowledge.

Brooks said:

If I had a million dollars, I would be a millionaire. That is the part you theists never want to acknowledge.

Not nominated for a screwie, but FlimFlamboyant's follow-up is classic:

And if we all had a dollar for every time jimbo failed to make a valid point, we'd all be millionaires.

Plenty this round. Marshall Brain has a new video out, this time called the "10 Questions Every Intelligent Christian Must Answer." Unfortunately, they're not very intelligent questions, and it's merely more of the same. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zDHJ4ztnldQ&eurl=

http://www.hallvworthington.com/index.html -- these guys think only the early church and the early Quakers had the True GospelTM, and that the Kingdom of God comes whenever someone becomes a Christian, and that Jesus still speaks audibly today.

http://italktogod.wordpress.com/

http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/mbreligion/F2213235?thread=3773134

Steven Carr comments on David Wood's blog entry: http://problemofevil.blogspot.com/2007/01/stepford-wives-and-problem-of-freedom.html#comment-4131852204214197757

'If men were capable of removing the free will of women, should we do it, knowing that otherwise women won't behave perfectly?'

Should we remove the freedom of rapists and murderers to rape and murder?

David Wood loves his false dichtomies.

You can either give a being free will or have that being behave perfectly.

I guess Heaven must be empty....

I wonder why people like the love and affection shown to them by dogs, when in Christian thought dogs do not have free will.

Perhaps , in practice, people don't value free will as much as they claim.

Certainly they don't want to let murderers and rapists out of prison, just because some Christians say murderers and rapists should have the freedom to murder and rape.

This website, simply for egregious web design: http://www.dokimos.org/ajff/

http://www.redmoonrising.com/Giza/DyingandRising3.htm For paragraph's such as this:

Since the publication of The Golden Bough many scholars have taken Frazer's thesis, built upon it, and proclaimed much more bolder and more explicit conclusions regarding the connection that must surely exist between Jesus of Nazareth and paganism's Dying God. Below is a sampling of some of the books that have been published over the years that have offered answers to this curious question.

http://www.chick.com/reading/tracts/0031/0031_01.asp

Nomination for the French police:

Police banned the soup kitchen last month, arguing that the handouts discriminated against Jews and Muslims who do not eat pork on religious grounds. The administrative court said the distribution was "clearly discriminatory," but could not be stopped because the organizers offered to feed anyone who asked for help.

Ben Stiller for repeating the "more people have died in the name of God than anything else" crap on the radio.

A whole passel of awards for people at freethinkingteens.com:

What is faith, exactly? Christians say it is their belief in God and Jesus, etc. Faith is the belief in something that is unproven by logic or evidence. Christians say it themselves; if they had proof for God or Jesus, it wouldn't be faith they were operating off of. It would be knowledge. So, people believe God and Jesus just 'because'? http://www.freethinkingteens.com/what_faith_really_is
Well then, do you get to decide what's a hyperbole and what's not? Why didn't god show us a clear path as to what parts of scripture are a hyperbole or not? If the bible is god's word, why didn't god make it clear for all of us? Why does your all-powerful and all-knowing god need to rely on apologists and theologians to clarify his word? http://www.freethinkingteens.com/for...te/2554?page=1
http://www.freethinkingteens.com/for...te/2351?page=1 Here is where I derive my atheism. I contend that no major religion has got a possible answer yet. I have thought about it, and because if there is a creator, it must be Benevolent (basically saying only nice people make crap for others; creation is, in itself, a sign of good will). But a Benevolent Omnipotent God would make things better for people, like giving us giant shells, like snails. Humans would stop killing each other if it was impossible to do so. And I think a Benevolent Omnipotent thing would do that. Killing people isn't good.

The actually asked if we were scared of the experts that they had....

http://www.rationalrevolution.net/articles/jesus_myth_history.htm -- Christ myther who thinks he has the goods, but it's all old news.

The Klan tries to sound like hippies:

http://www.kkk.com/ Welcome to the Ku Klux Klan! Bringing a Message of Hope and Deliverance to White Christian America! A Message of Love NOT Hate!

Observer, a councillor from Warrington in the North West of England, wins for dialogue with a reader at http://www.warrington-worldwide.co.uk/scripts/bulletin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=2;t=000360;p=1

We are talking about third, forth or fifth hand accounts of events in a highly superstitious age; which were no doubt ammended to suit the politics of the time in which they were written. As I said: if conspiracy theorists even today, challenge current events (JFK assassination; 9/11; Diana etc); how can we possibly have any confidence in tales from the 1st Century, that are not backed up by physical evidence? The CHRISTians did of course win; or is that man in Rome a mere illusion? And they went on to consolidate their hold on the Roman Empire and it's successor States, and their control of history and the minds of successive generations of superstitious peasants. As for the resurection: a physical impossibility IF someone was dead; so unless he survived the crucifixion; we must conclude a political need on the part of his followers to create a myth that became stronger than the man.

http://www.godlessgeeks.com/LINKS/xmasTrees.htm for quoting Jer. 10:2-8 for proving that God bans Christmas trees.

http://www.faithfreedom.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=35397

http://david.dw-perspective.org.uk/does-richard-dawkins-exist.html -- not a Screwball, but an expose' of one (Richard Dawkins).

Finally, gotquestions.org for this:

The amillennial view comes from interpreting unfulfilled prophecy differently than how non-prophetic Scripture and fulfilled prophecy are interpreted. Non-prophetic Scripture and fulfilled prophecy are interpreted literally or normally. But according to the amillennialist, unfulfilled prophecy is to be interpreted allegorically, or non-literally. This is called using a dual hermeneutic. Hermeneutics is the study of the principles of interpretation. The amillennialist assumes that all unfulfilled prophecy is written in symbolic or figurative language. Therefore, the amillennialist will assign different meanings to those parts of Scripture than the normal, contextual meanings of those words.
The problem with interpreting unfulfilled prophecy allegorically is that this allows for a wide range of meanings. Unless you interpret Scripture in the normal sense of how written language is interpreted, there won't be One meaning. Yet God, the ultimate author of all of Scripture, did have One specific meaning when he gave Scripture to be written to the human authors. Though there may be many applications to life from a passage of Scripture, there is only one meaning, and that meaning is what God intended it to mean. Also, the fact that fulfilled prophecy was fulfilled literally is the best reason of all for assuming that unfulfilled prophecy will also be literally fulfilled. The prophecies concerning Christ's first coming were fulfilled literally. Therefore, prophecies concerning Christ's second coming should also be expected to be fulfilled literally. For these reasons, an allegorical interpretation of unfulfilled prophecy should be rejected and a literal or normal interpretation of unfulfilled prophecy should be adopted.

Iason for posting this to prove the gospels were anonymously written and werent labeled as to any authors until later:

Justin Martyr's 1st Apology, 150-160CE, 1 reference :Ch. 66 : For the apostles, in the memoirs composed by them, which are called Gospels, have thus delivered unto us what was enjoined upon them; that Jesus took bread, and when He had given thanks, said, "This do ye in remembrance of Me, this is My body;" and that, after the same manner, having taken the cup and given thanks, He said, "This is My blood;" and gave it to them alone.

Adam: Basically, the OT (apart from the Prophets) cannot be used to determine objective morality. We must "apologize" for it in the context of its time and place (as some have done here) or revert to allegorical interpretations.

godelwood: okay...my definition of "God".....a mythical creature that has no evidence of his exixtance.....the christian god is a two faced flip-flopper...the whole basis of christian idiology is that "God" is love, and transends human thought, yet he shares many of our faults, like jeolousy, anger, hate, and pride. it is just as true to say that "God" is an alien as it is to say he is omnipotant

Beloved57: To say that faith is a condition to get saved is saying folk are saved by keeping the law...Belief in christ is commanded to the elect 1jn 3...23And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment...Again if you advocate that man is saved by keeping a commandent of God then you teach a work/Law salvation and you are teaching a false gospel....This is what I have to say to all who teach a false gospel..gal 1:6I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel...

Guruite: But just because the bible says so... dosent make it right... to have a system of ethics it needs to stem from logic... the bible obviously dosent. (and not just on killing... the purifying on a woman after childbirth serves no major logical purpose)

Ok, I was wrong lots of civilizations had bad laws back then.

Sorry, god isnt immoral.. he dosent exist. The punishments in the old testiment were immoral

There was a fine line between order and chaos... well, if the order had to be forced at the point of a sharp stick... well then bring on the chaos. - If you support any revolution against oppression then you understand that order is not paramount to freedom.

Useless killing bothers me... I guess i have compassion

If any crime was a threat to society then they had a lousy society. If they had a lousy society then why diddnt god change it (without making *censored* laws)

Yes, and guess what? We, people, made this change - not god. Bad laws are bad laws, i can understand if they had to have some *censored* laws back then. However, with god, anything is possiable no? So why diddnt he make it so that he wouldent have to contradict himself? Why diddnt he make it so he wouldent have to revoke some old laws? Why in the world would god have to wait for the roman empire to institute his really good laws?

i was explaining why i diddnt like it... my prefrences to this explanation are what count, as i was explaining why i diddnt like the death penalty

spauline for this tidbit on spiritual history:

the peak time of the gospel in spiritual history was the Middle ages. In that time period, more or less most people in Europe are Catholic and they incorporate the teachings and practices of the Church into their daily lives. People weren't always the holiest, and there were some minor heresies and threats to the RCC, but, for the most part, things were good spiritually. Then, beginning with Protestantism, whereas the world started to get better materialistically, spiritually it's going down hill. To illustrate, look at what types of people were the common man's heros in the successive epochs.

John Powell for this gem:

OLDSHEPHERD: As soon as you provide me with credible, verifiable, historical evidence that I have any mistaken beliefs. Your assumptions and presuppositions, "probably," "maybe," "could be," "possibly," etc. are not evidence.
POWELL: Yes they are evidence.

Assumptions are evidence.... John, what happened to you?

Braveheart: Something else I just noticed about the fringe groups - it's pretty useless to get into a debate with someone who thinks he has sure knowledge one way or the other, at least if your goal is to change his mind. The fringes seem to be the points where dogma override reason....It is informative if you want to know how the fringe mind works, though.


2006 Platinum Screwball Award Winners
Special thanks to my little bro, The Toa of Justice, for the award design!
Skeptic: Francois Tremblay Wants Us To Shut Up!
Most of us agree that an individual should be free to think, or believe, whatever he wants in the privacy of his own mind. For example, one is absolutely free to fantasize about mass murder (although this may be very unhealthy). But to take that fantasy into public life, and commit mass murder, is criminal. What is acceptable in one's private arena, is not necessarily desirable or even acceptable in the social arena.

...as I've also discussed in "Christians are our cultural enemies", the Christian moral, teleological and anti-scientific ideas are totally opposed to secular science and Western values. Christianity is therefore polluting public discourse with premises which have no place in the 21st century, regardless of whether they are obvious propaganda or subtle semantics. These premises have been wholly discredited by both the success of science and the choices of the vast majority of people living in Western countries.

To even allow Christian voices or premises in a non-religious conversation is inherent treason to everything we stand for as modern upright human beings. Christian beliefs are Middle Eastern canards declaimed furiously by pompous *sses.

It is also equally obvious that Christians have no incentive to change their ways. To have faith that one's beliefs are the right ones, despite all evidence, is praised as the highest virtue. Christians, by the nature of religion itself, can have no goal but to strenghten and propagate their belief system. There is no virtue of truth-seeking, honesty or progress in Christianity.

So what's the difference between me and a Christian evangelist ? He wants to enslave minds and institutions so they perpetuate his belief system. I'm fighting for people to be free to express their personal values and choose freedom or, if they must, a belief system, as long as they don't hurt anyone. I am morally responsible for my actions and the principles I espouse, and I promote moral responsibility for all. He preaches total irresponsibility. That's what makes me morally superior.

Part of our Western values considers us to be on equal grounds, but on that point I have to disagree. As long as there are people who actively seek to destroy our Western way of life, it remains self-destructive to place them on a pedestal of "equal time". True equality can only exist when all collectivist power is destroyed. This is one lesson that has not reached modernity yet.

I have done my best to fight against this attitude, but I am alone, and there's not much I can do about it. If you want to help, then the next time you see a Christian spout his rhetoric on an atheist message board or in an atheist discussion, speak up against the religion and the premises of the rhetoric. Make it clear that Christianity is not wanted. Maybe they'll get the message.

Skeptic Website: Church of Reality http://www.churchofreality.org/opinion/christian.htm Choice tidbits...
Christianity is a "we're better that you" religion that openly disdains all other religions, including other Christians. It creates a highly exaggerated sense of self importance that is sustained by the oppression and judgment of others. Christians see the world as a battlefield where God is at war with the Devil who are fighting this war through human surrogates with Christians as the good guys, and everyone else as the bad guys. And since this is a holy war, all is fair. It is ok for Christians to be dishonest in order to gain power to fight for Jesus.

For example, if a Christian were to kill me for posting this web page, publicly the churches would condemn it as murder and wrong. However, in their heart they would be thankful that some one killed me because I am an instrument of Satan and therefore deserve to die. I would be an enemy killed in battle. At a minimum, they are out there praying for my soul, because I am lost and they are found.

From the perspective of a non-believer, I see Christians in general as self-righteous, hate filled, and indulging in behavior that is very bizarre. If someone is speaking in tongues, either God is speaking through them, or they are so mentally ill that they are hallucinating that God is speaking through them. Is God really speaking through them? Well, if God is all powerful, then can't he speak for himself? If not, God has a problem. If so, then the Christian who thinks he's speaking for God has a problem. The bottom line is, Christianity is a cult. (Actually, thousands of related cults) And as a culture, it sucks.

Another side effect of faith is that it makes you more gullible. We live in a world where deception is common and it's important to figure out who's telling you the truth and who isn't. People need to have good screening mechanisms to survive. You have to be able to test information to see if it's true. When you believe on faith you reprogram you mind to accept information that is untested. It's like having a back door where crooks can sneak in and get you to believe anything they want. All they have to do is cook up a scam and slap a cross on the front of it and Christians are reaching for their wallet. The reason Christians are so gullible is because they have accepted the role of being a follower and doing what their crowd does rather than to think things through themselves. So once they become convinced that their peers are doing it then they are ready to get in on it.
TWeb veteran: Jimbo (Brooks Trubee) in a tight race. However, John Loftus (Doubting John), who came in 2nd, wins a special Platinum Insensitivity Award for this comment:
Because he's handicapped, Christians here won't tell him otherwise. He's going to study to be an apologist, but he will fall flat on his face. There are a great many people in ministry who will fall flat on their faces because no one told them the truth that they should not pursue such goals. Nick is one of them. But since Christians believe God can make clay into gold they encourage him in faith, even though deep down inside they really don't believe it.

Tell him the truth! Save him from pursuing what will be a dead end career for him.

Nick, when you realize you don't have the brain power for being an apologist and your hopes and dreams are dashed, and possibly even your faith, remember who told you the truth. It was me. Do something else with your life, and I'm serious.

Famous Skeptic: Richard Dawkins

Famous Christian: Ted Haggard

Christian: JoLonda the Troll. Samples:

It is popular for Christian Youth Leaders to spend their planning and ministry times as an endeavor to cater and sympathize to their youthful charges supposedly having special needs while experiencing this special time in their lives. However, the concept of "Teenage" years is not found in Scripture, as children were put directly into adulthood at puberty by means of a designed schedule.

Day to day, or rather usually week to week, success today in "Youth Ministry" is measured by the amount of positive feedback from parents, the approval of youth themselves, and by the number of event participants. Of course, anecdotal longetudinal examples of sterling successes from any particular Youth Program are always trotted out to justify that program's methods and content, but so called "successes" can be pointed to in any Youth Program, whether secular or religious. These modern parameters of success are not found in Scripture.

Titus 2:6-7 "Young Men likewise exhort to be sober minded. In all things shewing thyself a pattern of good works: in doctrine shewing uncorruptness, gravity, sincerity."

This is a clear direction of reproof to Bouncy Little Youth Leaders. People cannot do good works while bouncing around, and God knows this. "Activities" to occupy and entertain the youth, even to "Inspire" them, is not the pattern here.

Prov. 30:17 "The eye that mocketh at his father, and despiseth to obey his mother, the ravens of the valley shall pick it out, and the young eagles shall eat it."

Nothing could be clearer for correction today with mouthy, argumentive youth. Church Youth events should portray graphic pictures of this verse to illiustrate how God sees rebellious youth. It is the job of a Youth Leader to find one of the youth with artistic talent to do the graphics.

Non-Christian Theist:LDSTrue, for his claim that the SLC Olympics fulfilled Biblical prophecy.

Christian website: Bible Wheel

TWeb noob: member11491

At large: Rosie O'Donnell

Christian email: Scholars are Hopelessly Confused by the Bible, But I'm Not!

I've studied the Bible thoroughly for a dozen years, and do not base my conclusions on any other person's analysis, whatever their credentials. Most people, scholars included, are hopelessly confused by the Bible. It is appropriate that you call it a Chicken Challenge because you are the Chicken who is afraid to really think and have no metaphorical understanding. Your attempts at reasoning to refute the Bible text ("Satan is no salesman" - good one) are pathetically infantile and conveniently ignore the Hebrew meanings of the words translated "traffick" and "merchandise" in Ezekiel 28. Your essay's conclusions show that you're hopelessly confused, and another example of the blind leading the blind.

Oh, and you might take a scholarly course in spelling - by the looks of your essay, you could stand to brush up on it.

Website at large: Jesus Smoked Dope!http://www.cannabisculture.com/

As doubtful as the following hypothesis might first seem to the reader, I might as well boldly state my case right from the start: either Jesus used marijuana or he was not the Christ. The very word "Christ", by the implication of its linguistic origins and true meaning, gives us the most profound evidence that Jesus did in fact use the same herb as his ancient semitic ancestors, and which is still used by people around the world for its enlightening and healing properties.

After the fall of the Jewish kingdoms, and the bloody purges following the forged discovery of the Book of theLaw (1 Kings 23), the cannabis holy oil was prohibited as associated with pagan worship. Yet it seems that certain sects retained the topical entheogen, and continued to practice the older religion, silently awaiting the return of a Messiah-king in the line of David.

The ministry of Jesus marked the return of the Jewish Messiah-kings, and thus the re-emergence of the holy oil. Jesus was called the Christ because he violated the Old Testament taboo on the cannabis oil and distributed it freely for initiation rites and to heal the sick and wounded.

Skeptic email: myth buster says the Constitution is crap!

What your faith won't allow you to comprehend is that cultural and historical considerations are moot. Like the Bible, the Constitution is anotd vague piece of crap in desperate need of an update. One thing I guess you'll never learn is that you don't get to add information to the Bible to explain or justify it.

At large email: The ETs are Coming!

Thanks again. There's no mistaking a 'Christian' with his words and actions. Here's why I have no use for the materials contained on your web site:

1.) A race of highly advanced ET's (that means extraterrestrials) about 30 to 50 thousand years ago altered primitive man's DNA, creating the human species. Many ET races did so, which explains the rich variety of races on the Earth. How does your bible explain that??

2.) Another race of malevolent ET's interbred with Earth women and also interfered in historic events- which goes against cosmic law. Their offspring eventually formed the monarchies and ruling elite from prehistory onward. I don't recall the Vatican ever standing up to challenge the idea of "divine right to rulership," unless I simply missed it.

3.) Many researchers believe that individuals within the current global power structure are the direct descendants of this interbreeding bloodline.

4.) Ritual human sacrifice, usury and false religions were created to enslave (gullible) primitive man. Today they are manifested as banking, "nobility," the ruling class, the Trilateral Commission and other think tanks where public policy is decided in secret.

5.) As Christianity in general is a spin-off of Catholicism, spokesmen for this are unknowingly supporting and encouraging the dumbing down and enslavement of a great race.

6.) Adoph Hitler was financed by Wall Street and some top multinational corporations. The Vatican also aided his rise to power. The Jesuits, the Zionists and ruling classes have been, and always will be an occult, Luciferian opposition to the human enlightenment and soveirgnty.

7.) Despite the dark forces currently in control as well as their useful idiots in a multitude of guises, mankind is experiencing an powerful awakening.

8.) The more advanced a civilization, the less need they have for physical manifestation. Also, the more advanced a civilization, the less they tend to resort to war and violence.

9.) Your role as an apologetic goes against the oncoming enlightenment. It doesn't work; it never did. Horse-*** is still horse-*** no mater how many PhD.'s your yes-men and fellow apologists have at the end of their names. No matter how clever you think you are, you are flat wrong; you are obsolete, and you need to get out of the way and stop supporting an evil force ( false religion).

10.) Within the next 6 years or so, you and your ilk will be standing scratching your heads with your mouths wide open because you were advised of your error and responded with insults and arrogance.