October 2005

screwballs of the month


At the rate the need to award these has grown, every person on Earth will win an award in October of 2045. Scary thought, eh?



from the mailbag


Here’s one from someone trying to sell me on their new book:



The True Identity of the Bible-God Revealed

The author, Nathaniel J. Merritt, has been hitchhiking his way to Enlightenment since he was a teen. Becoming a Jehovah's Witness at age 15, he was later shunned by them at 19 for smoking pot and having sex. Later in 1973, he was born again as a Jesus Freak. This spiritual renewal led him to become a Baptist minister in 1980, where he remained for 15 years. Then he dove into the deep waters of Zen Buddhism, and even became a Buddhist priest. After 10 years, he returned to Christianity, but some say he returned as a heretic and blasphemer...

This book is the culmination of all his seeking and study. In this book, Merritt draws back the curtain on an ancient mysterious, spiritual path that the Catholic church has suppressed since Christianity began. Keeping it light and easy to read, the author takes the reader down the rabbit hole of the real Matrix, and turns the world upside down and inside out. Discover for yourself the lies of God in the Garden of Eden, and the Truth told by the Serpent.




Bad as is, but after that I got this public service announcement from the Politically Correct Police. My words quoted from the article are in bold:

What you find below are examples of the answers you gave to an article by James Buckner. Some of your answers are very good but on these ones you use unneeded tricks that border on dishonesty. There are many others like these.  Let me explain:

1. Why is the Bible unclear about how to be saved? Is there anything more important that the Bible could communicate? Why is it ambiguous and contradictory on this subject?

How is it ambiguous or contradictory? Again, we are simply amazed that Buckner had these problems. But it is easy to see why:

You know what he means. In my 17 years as a Christian I have come across churches and whole denominations that have quite different views about salvation. Although James’ question has to do with HOW to be saved, let me expand the question to include important questions regarding salvation that millions of Christians struggle with:

a) Are we saved because we are predestined or do we choose salvation or a mixture of both?  I am sure you have your opinion and may even think it’s clear but for millions of Christians (many of them NOT stupid), this is not clear at all.      

b) Can we lose our salvation? It depends who you ask.

c) The whole age of accountability issue.

d) Is baptism necessary for salvation? Again, that you think you have the answer is not relevant, ALL sincere Christians should be able to understand and clearly see what is the truth about this subject.

4. Why is the nature and practice of the two sacraments - baptism and the Lord's Supper - left ambiguous in the Bible, and a cause of discord among churches?

It's hard to answer without specifics, but in terms of the idea that baptism is required for salvation, see here -- the confusion is all our own and comes of reading our own agenda into the text. As for "discord", I see plenty of healthy discussion, but I don't see congregations burning down each others' houses of worship over this. Do you?

You again pretended not to understand his point. You know what he means. Your caricature of the effects of the different beliefs within Christendom is a smokescreen, there ARE many views about baptism and the Lord’s Supper in the Christian world, as to purpose, method, meaning etc.   

5. Why is the book of Revelation incomprehensible if it is really "not sealed" (Revelation 22:10)? Why are the prophecies in the book of Daniel actually easier to understand, if they are sealed (Daniel 12:9)?

Revelation is incomprehensible only to those who don't do their homework. Again, why does Buckner have problems I don't? How about some specifics?

I would not have asked the question the way James did it, but your answer is simply untrue. There are many interpretations of the book of Revelation, once more, you may think you know what is the correct approach and for sure we can find ways to apply what’s there to help us in our Christian walk, but no one knows really what the book is about. Many bright and able scholars disagree and they have done their homework.

 So, get your white flags out and start waving. Then this memo from the Department of Bigotry:

Honor/shame?  How silly to think that God can be shamed or have honor
taken away.  He sounds more like a Samurai or a Klingon.............all
wrapped up in concern over his "honor".  Only the insecure fret over


And this from down the hall in the Da Vinci Code Conspiracy Bureau:


As all historians and scientists must agree we must return to the facts and relics in existence today about a man called and known to be Jesus of Nazareth. The Romans speak of him in passing so he did in fact exist if we believe Roman history. Today we have a sample of his blood in the Sudarium found in the Cathedral of Oviedo, Spain. It is safely guarded and a treasure of Spain. Tests are being done on its DNA to see if this man was truly non human or a human with a different physical structure than the rest of the billions of humans out there. We know that turban was found untouched where this man was placed after he was taken down from the cross. We know too that the Roman soldiers that were responsible for making sure his body did not disappear were either incompentents, given sleeping gas, or were threatened or bought out not to tell what happened to the body. Now, everything that has come after has been a mere reconstruction of events which are needed by some men to try to explain sensations and thoughts which science has still not been able to explain thorough and convincingly. But lets be real here, what do we really know? We do not even know where he was buried if in fact he was dead and if in fact they placed his body in some tomb. All I have as a scientist to go on is his blood found in the Sudarium. If you read Asarim you will understand what I mean. I expect a reply from all you scholars out there trying to prove the existence of non existence of something without evidence. Forget works written 30 some years after the fact. That is worthless oral tradition. I need proof. Scientific proof. The only thing we really have is the Sudarium which supposedly covered this man's head and is full of his blood.


And finally, an issue from the Institute of Vague and Paranoid Threats:



There is a time for everything. Now is your time. From this day forward you can expect that your life will fall apart and your faith will be destoyed. Such is the fate of those who build their house on sand. But that is not your crime, only your weakness. The offense:  vilifying  truth in exchange for lies. Do not be deceived: you will reap what you sow. Since you are planting the seeds of ridicule and falsehood, you will shortly be exposed to the very same. Groveling before your false 'god' will not help you. Note this day upon your calender.  You have no idea what you are dealing with.


You are an idiot.


Have you returned the money you stole yet?


When I told them they had won a Screwball, I got this reply:


Your e-mail to me was deleted unread. You are a fool to think that I would read your self-righteous blab. I know what you are doing and have alerted the proper authorities. May you burn in your own hell.


By the way, the person had been reading my article on Lloyd M. Graham, the guy who thinks the earth is a burned-out sun. Yup. My faith is in terrible danger all right.


A reader also sent us this one:





http://www.jesusmyth.freeuk.com/er008.htm , where this issue is addressed, he seems perfectly aware of all the social science data one needs to bludgeon his theory into submission - data that he proclaims when it suits him, and promptly ignores when it becomes apparent that there is precious little reason to think that Jesus was, in the Jewish sense, buried for "3 days and 3 nights".   I reckon this particular area should be framed and hung on a wall as an example of someone approaching the bible precisely the wrong way - ie, with the axiom of the Gospels being guff, cos, well, they just HAVE to be!



Finally, another reader has a special treat for us:


And we have a winner for the first ever Florence Nightingale Memorial Hot Water Bottle!

This rare and prestigious award goes to Doubting John, for his spectacularly bad behavior in his own debate discussion thread and subsequent "departure" from Theologyweb. This is for the injuries sustained to your intellect and ego that precipitated your frustration with this forum. And we have a winner for the first ever Florence Nightingale Memorial Hot Water Bottle!










golden duh award winners



exegesis? We don’t need no stinkin’ exegesis!



LDSTrue offers us the latest in Mormon internal witness hermeneutics. In response to someone saying that the original languages dictate the meaning of a passage and that exegesis is needed to understand them:

Revelation from the Holy Ghost is my Rock (besides Jesus of course) and REVELATION is my FOUNDATION and not your “sound exegetical method. I would not trade my old friend The Holy Ghost (aka HG) in for a ton of your method! No make that 10 to the millionth power. No make that 10 to the …!


When told,Jesus didn't speak English, and neither did Matthew write in English, he replied:


I know, but the Holy Ghost DOES!!! (aka HG) (aka my Old Friend)!!!!!!!!!!



Profile in jpholding obsessive-compulsive disorder



Lazy Agnostic won himself a Gold Lifetime Achievement Award for stalking me on TWeb all month, and among other things, giving a "psychological profile" of me, right in the same post where he said he wouldn't:


I won't offer a psychological profile of JP but to characterize him as elitist is an understatement of great magnitude.

His underlying sense of inadequacy, though, compels him to his daily raison d'etre: the search for pale comparison. He is utterly un-equipped to live without insult and derision. He won't stop it for Christ or anyone; he can't.

Though his brand of comportment is eschewed by widely-respected apologists, he will declare that any Christian who fails to condone his actions, is worshipping a false Christ. He will compose reams of rationalization to cling to his insults. JP holds himself accountable to no one; he declares he has no need for growth.

It is apparent JP has not yet yielded his ego to a noble embrace of faith. It is his intellect he worships so frequently and so fervently.


I guess it is somewhat easier than answering my arguments, eh?


Lloyd m. graham needs to know about this



Teo1 posted the following on TWeb, whatever it was:


Every cell in our body' every molecule, every atom will be rearranged so as to (hopefully) transform our current bodies of density and morality into a vehicle of transformational light, capable of facilitating the incoming Christ consciousness and its immortality. It is also said that in the transformational process, our DNA system will be rearranged from a system of 2 strands to a system of 12 or 13 strands. Our chakras will also be rearranged and increased, going from 7 to 12 or 13. Our atoms will be increased and rearranged in order to facilitate the incoming light (Christ consciousness).

Following through with the transformational theory, it seems reasonable that our beloved planet, a living organism, must also transform to receive the Christ consciousness. This procedure will emerge in the much heralded Earth changes, representing dissolution of the old and archaic illusionary concepts. Today there is much discussion and conjecture about the Earth changes and how they will affect us individually and collectively.


There is a polarity created where some move into more exalted states of Love, Joy and Bliss, a reunion with the creator, and others take the downward spiral into fear, anger, separation and control often blaming and projecting in emotional outbursts. In the latest tests at Stanford, monkeys, when exposed to magnetic field fluctuations, showed behaviour from comatose to self mutilation. Our magnetic fields have been undergoing fluctuations as well. Do we have to behave like monkeys? Well if we choose the monkey mind often referred to as reactionary mind or the ego, yes. If we align ourselves with love and compassion, divine mind, the answer is an emphatic NO.

On a scale of 1 to 10 in field strength the Earth's magnetic fields are now at around 1.5. This also increases the possibility of meteor impacts with two large meteor showers scheduled in the near future. This drop in field strength is often a precursor to a magnetic pole shift. If we match the higher consciousness and energy flowing with it releasing the lower vibrational attitudes and emotions, our frequency will rise beyond the effects on the lower mental and emotional levels.




MichaelCadry seems also to have drunk from the same bucket this month:

In the latter years it is written, "And Michael shall stand up for the children of your (Daniel's ancestors and Israel's children and children's children and further), people and there SHALL BE a time of TROUBLE SUCH AS NEVER was even to a nation at that same time, and at THAT TIME shall thy people be delivered, everyone who is found written in the BOOK. And many of the dead shall awake, some to everlasting life and some to SHAME and CONTEMPT. And they that be WISE shall SHINE like the Brightness of heaven (the firmament) and they that turn many to righteousness SHALL BE AS THE STARS forever and ever." When our spiritual energy inside our earthly body leaves our dead body behind, we go to heaven, for those who are so blessed, and we inhabit the stars with our energy and we can move at the speed of light, but not with wings. Just by God's saying so. And we are a ball of energy among many balls of energy that inhabit each star. And this is heaven, where there are many mansions, and I (Jesus) go to prepare a place for you (Venus). I (Jesus) am the bright and morning star (Venus) and even as I received it from my Father, so I give it to those who honour me.

You Preterists have SO MUCH TO LEARN!! YOU are so FAR from the Lord that you are just Satan's Parasites, confused by him so much that you are ready to die for your false beliefs and you are not one iota of being closer to God than anybody in the earth.


The race card seems to be a joker


Mickiel from TWeb offered two gems worthy of Gold, one from a message, the other in his signature:

Theres a place in theologyweb for christians only, I'm not christian and have been put out of it before. Can you explain why that is not racist?


I'm not a bigot, I just don't like white people all that much.



And there’s also a hidden message in the Wallace and gromit feature about eating cheese


The Narnia movie will soon be out, and it seems some people are bracing for it. The Globe and Mail newspaper, on "The Chronicles of Narnia" movie that is coming out in December, said:

Is this the next super-franchise? The series starts with the most famous of C. S. Lewis's Narnia stories, about English kids who go through the back of a wardrobe into a new world, where they must overthrow an evil witch with the help of a messianic lion.

Be alert for hidden Christian messages.



They’re not the only ones who figured this out. Someone else, one Frank Cerabino, has warned us that the corresponding McDonald's Happy Meals may contain thinly veiled Christian theology:

When you can combine the forces of Disney, the McDonald's Happy Meal and Gov. Jeb Bush in one tidy package - all working together to cram thinly veiled Christian theology down the gullets of Florida's schoolchildren - you've got yourself a hell of a plan.

This December, just in time for Christmas, the movie version of "The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe" will be in theaters everywhere, much to the delight of Christian evangelicals, who see the children's tale as it was intended - a way to subtly introduce the Christ story to young people.



Make sure you also check out my footnotes

From “the poky little puppy”

Moses advertised his new book on TWeb thusly:

Darth, just to shut you up, read some works by Edmund D. Cohen and Sherwin T. Wine, Joseph McCabe, Joseph Wheless, Ken Smith, etc. etc. Also since you mentioned the Internet you really should go to "religioustolerance.org" for a balanced view on religion.

Yes I have now read some of the works of Arkadyia or whatever Edited by a moderator. her name is and I agree with a lot of what she says.

Also here is a list of reference bokks used in the compilation of my book God-101.
Mere Christianity – C. S. Lewis
The Sociology of Religion – Max Weber
Modern Man in Search of a Soul – Carl Jung
The Will to Believe, and Other Essays – William James
Judaism – Arthur Hertzberg
The Pagan Christ – Tom Harpur
The Silence of Jesus – James Breech
Protestantism – J Leslie Dunstan
The Lost Gospel, the Book of “Q” – Burton Mack
The Hutchinson History of the World – J. M. Roberts
The Story of Civilization, Vol. 1 - 10 – Will and Ariel Durant
The Varieties of Religious Experience – William James
The Elementary Forms of Religious Life – Emile Durkheim
The Phenomenon of Man – Pierre Teilhard De Chardin
Holy Blood, Holy Grail – Michael Baigent, Richard Leigh, Henry Lincoln
When Religion Becomes Evil – Charles Kimball
The Rules of Sociological Method – Emile Durkheim
The Selfish Gene – Richard Dawkins
Language, Truth and Logic – Alfred J. Ayer
The Emergence of Man – John Pfeiffer
Hinduism – Luis Renou
The Four Loves – C. S. Lewis
Consciousness Explained – Daniel Dennett
The Meme Machine – Susan Blackmore
The Road less Traveled – M. Scott Peck
Buddhism – Richard A. Gard
For Christ’s Sake – Tom Harpur
Further Down the Road Less Traveled – M. Scott Peck
Cultural Anthropology – William A Haviland
Catholicism – George Brantl
Viruses of the Mind – R. Brodie
The Problem of Pain – C. S. Lewis
Islam – John A. Williams
(In case these books get a little too dry!)

Sex in History – Reay Tannahill


the agonist of defeat


Ed Babinski plumbs the depths of modern American ignorance with a reply to my point:

agonistic persons (which means 70% of the world today)


70%? I admit to being a little agnostic about that figure. But then with you being nearly an inerrantist Bible believer you probably view anyone with less than your own level of certainty as an "agnostic."

What do you think of people whose views include some dilution of agnosticism, i.e., whose views are a mix of religious or spiritual faith, hope, love, and agnosticism?


In short, Edski confused “agonistic” (a word that means, oriented towards honor and shame principles) with agnostic. Now that’s a Golden Duh, but not the only one. Morton Gneiss on TWeb blew himself a bubble in the same subject, as well as with other comments:

Personally I think that, in the case of biblical discussion, attacking scholarship is the weakest and most dispicable of all strawmen. In most cases it says to me that the person lacks the ability to contest the argument itself. But attacking the scholarship doesn't refute the argument, it only begs refutation by a more 'appropriate' source. I'm surprised that a non-Christian would adopt this tactic on an issue that wasn't 'bible science' related. I only make this exception for bible scientists because, by thier own history, they are notorious for omiting and fabricating facts and evidence to make thier case.

Bible scholarship doesn't necessarily make someone an objective critic and expert of the bible. Very few people come away from that line of study with the ability to objetively criticize the bible.

As long as there is evidence supported to make the case, the debator has done thier job. It's rediculous to think that everyone should run out and get a PHD in every topic they wish to discuss, in fact that notion is fricken stupid.


But he gets his Ignorance in Anthropology Award for these comments in particular:

Did you mean to prove my point? Shame-based systems don't have a supreme power or diety, it's all honor based. That's the whole point. The impetus for being good is radically different.

Anthropologist generally call Judeo-Christianity 'guilt' based, and today that's a valid position. How often do Christians use the line 'but Jesus died for you!"? But the guilt is fear driven.

In a shame-based system the consequence for sin is bringing dishonor on yourself and invoking the shame of family and community. A shame-based system doesn't have invisible men watching to make sure you do good..they instill in you the sense that you should do good for the sake of being a good person.

The Bible and shame-based morality are entirely incompatible.


Basically, Morty didn’t know there was any difference between moral and legal guilt. Oops.



“F.C.” stands for fried chicken


Finally, FC Julianus wins the Circumscribed Cowardice Award for response to where I challenged him on topics within my purview in a thread:


I'm sure you have neither the courage nor the knowledge to debate me on any one of those subjects after the posturing is done.



Sure, care to pick a topic?

1. Old Testament Archaeology
2. Biblical Hebrew
New Testament Greek
Classical Arabic
Historical Reliability of the Torah

The only stipulation I ask for is that you are not allowed to use one of your existing essays.



Silver duh award winners



Kenite earns the Multiple Idiocies Award for several comments; for example, thinking that Greek and Latin words for priests make for totally different meanings.

Q: Then what pray tell are Lutheran and Anglican priests?

A” They are presbyteroi, not sacerdotes. The English word is ambiguous.


And these as well:

When Catholics tell me that there are 30 000 Protestant denominations, I tell them that this is because Protestantism is 30 000 times more credible than Catholicism. At least!


But not Catholic cultists. They go back to being unsaved every time they go to mass, so they can kill Christ again.



Thebluetriangle wins the Man of a Mission Award for this profession of fate:

Why am I so certain there really is a code there? Because I was given the task of finding the code by Jesus himself. It was and is an 'assignment' I have to complete. That shouldn't convince you the code is real. Only the evidence should do that. But you should understand that I am myself completely convinced that the code is real. The most startling piece of evidence was two verses that appeared on a bookmark belonging to my Alpha course director, which a voice twice told her was for me. This was on 11/15/01, a day when I myself received two signs, which were a mystery to me until this person confronted me with the bookmark and asked me what was going on. The words were exactly as follows:

Dear Bill

May God himself, the God of peace, sanctify you through and through. May your whole spirit, soul and body be kept blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. The one who calls you is faithful and he will do it.

Love Paul

These verses are I Thessalonians 5:23-24 (NIV) and I eventually discovered that they are encoded with the numerical signature of God. In fact they are the key that unlocked the entire code, because they show exactly how numbers are encoded, by the two systems I showed earlier, used in the correct combination.

I Thess 5:23 (o) = 1559
Our Lord Jesus Christ (a) = 1559

I Thess 5:24 (o) = 468
The Lord God (a) = 468

Total ordinal value of the words = 2194
NIV Genesis 1:1 (a) = 2194



Zipperhead earns a Appreciation of Disabilties Award for this comment:

This kid at college was 18 and had aspergers and he was a complete nutball.

All he did was rant and rave about how much he hated God.

I'm sure God hates him a lot more.


Rahab warrants the Trinitarian Confusion Award for the following. Asked, I don't understand how that is a problem, considering Jesus prayed to the Father on many occasion. Did he "pray to himself" then? The reply was:

Some would describe it as "looking for the inner oneself". Yet still the product of self introspection. Reflection. Meditation on what to do next. Who gave up the "Holy Ghost" at the time He expired? Who dispensed the Holy Spirit on the Disciples? Do you or not separate the Holy Spirit from Christ? Where does the Holy Spirit come from? Who is He by essence and nature? Who is Christ by essence and nature?



Freelight wins the Rambling Feelgood Diatribe of the Week merit for this:

I would like propose a universalism which posits that all souls and angels(however fallen or depraved) will ultimately be restored to the Light. God must love all sentient beings eternally if He is Eternal LOVE. Can a Father confine His angel sons to everlasting destruction, detention or suffering? The angels are actually higher sons of God than us they being prior and more original creations/offspring of Deity. Lets recall that all things/beings also were created thru the Logos so angels too must return by Way of the Christ-Light.

As far as the angels go....the human perspective(from some writers of the NT) is kinda bleak for the rebels....BUT...such could represent imperfect knowledge and bias on mans part. Perhaps God has a salvation/redemption plan for His fallen sons among the angels that we are not wholly privy about. This would seem to be Loves will, plan and ultimatum.

Okay, SO this guy is saying that because the writers of the NT were human beings (though claiming divine inspiration), we should assume errancy with them and side with his opinion even though he is indirectly admitting that his is is human in origin?

Here we have tensions between the omnipotence of Gods Love, the dynamics and sovereignty of free will among the angels, and certain laws which govern souls relative to their eternal or final destiny. This discussion will be on the 'angels' only (given what knowledge we have and/or can elaborate) - naturally we will filter our logic thru human senses/feelings, etc. - try to be open minded and consider that even though the Bible does not give us a replete knowledge on angels and their destinies.....all of creation is in birth pangs waiting for the revelation of the sons of God thru the redemptive-mediation of the Christ - I see this saving grace covering the Whole of Creation and must include all the sons of God - Angel and Man. With the angels the dynamics, effects of the salvation wrought by the Christ may certainly be different...but of a good and divine benefit nonetheless. I may be guilty of being an eternal optimist, but consider the doctrine of Irresistible grace from a univeralist purview...wherein Gods Will ultimately reigns in every plane,(every heart and soul), dimension and world in His vast and infinite Universe. This is at last....the triumph of Love.


Bagger Vance finds himself seated with the Discerning Mutually Exclusive Truths Award for this one:

This is actually interesting. If you know nothing of it how can you disbelieve it? Can you at least say that it is possible the Koran is correct based simply on the fact that you don't know anything about it?

You believe that the Bible is the true divine word but by believing that you are commenting on the other religious books that you know nothing about by your own admission.


gary cook also wins a Diatribe Award for:

What most people can not understand is?GOD IS 1ST INTERESTED IN OUR SPIRIT.It MUST COME 1ST.If we need sickness to be humble or too follow HIm.Then it may happen.HIS perfect will?Is us healed and having all spiritual blessing.WALKING ON THE WATER!But HE will not put anything,before your spirit or your growing too be like HIS SON JESUS CHRIST!It may take sickness to keep us humble and in fellowship with HIM .If that be the cases with you?Thank HIm.HE LOVES YOU THAT much.BECAUSE as you know?When we suffer?HE SUFFERS.
JUSt as our kids suffer?We suffer
WE MUST SEE this simple truth!We need to get in touch with our spirit,if they are feed and used by the LORd.The rest falls into place.
It has always been the spirit 1st.
I personally think?Everything recieved of us ,given by the HOLY GHOST is auto matic.of course we should or could LAY HANDS ON OTHERS for them to recieve.But it does not have to be this way.As we see?PAUL recieved most everything right from GOD.Even most of the WORD we now live by!We indeed have full access.We count some things above another.But the truth is?HE counts most every thing as important .The things that are best are the things that bless many.it has always been to give.HE gives ,WE give.Never just for us to selfishly have.But even then ?HE will give,But not a great deal.HE is a giver .WE MUST BE GIVERS.We must quit thionking I want.And start thinking,I want! to give
Our minds must be renewed to think like our LORD.WE CLEARLY SEE?HE GAVE EVERYTHING FOR THE CHURCH and died for the world.CAN WE DO LESS?You can take this teaching to the graveand still reap from it.it will never be worthless!It is the very mind of GOD!


As one reader said, it's like what if a Word of Faith minister got to close to a flame and suddenly exploded….and we hope he practices the laying of hands on his keyboard so his Spacebar and Shift key can finally get healed.


Now some website awards:


http://www.maryisgod.bravehost.com/index.html -- pseudo-Catholic trinitarian confusion/


http://www.stallman.org which includes some of these gems:

Get even for 9/11: support gay marriage!
People will say, "That makes no sense--what does one have to do with the other?" Which provides a chance to explain:

We don't know who the perpetrators are--perhaps Muslim fanatics, perhaps Christian fanatics, perhaps both. It is hard to get even with people when you can't identify them. How can we do it?

Both of those groups hate gays and oppose gay rights. Thus, supporting gay marriage offers us a way to thwart the perpetrators, even not knowing which group it was.


http://www.davidicke.com/ -- which I have told several people I consider too stupid to reply to.


http://www.newsarama.com/SDCC05/DC/Vertigo/SDCCTestament.html announces the making of a Bible comic book which includes such Bible facts as:

Israelis used to drop babies into furnaces as a sacrifice.

The Abraham and Isaac story got changed around during the Crusades


Moses has man sex on top of mount Sinai

Aliens are having sex with human women

"Joshua was Moses’s apprentice, and the Bible talks of their encounters ‘face to face’—which, as any Greek knows, is the sexual position reserved for man-to-man sacred sex - women are to be done from behind."



Runilo wins the Diatribe Award from the atheist side with this bit:

It amazes me that a rational and intellectual society like the one we live in, still believes in gods.

Just about anything the bible says, goes against science and proof. The proof is undeniably true, and is proven beyond any rational doubt. Yet, people seem to turn a blind eye to it, saying it can’t be true, because a book says otherwise, and believe only what they are brought up to believe.

All religions in the world have the exact same characteristics. They simply don’t die out, because people keep convincing each other that what they believe in is true.

Ever wondered why religion is geographically based? Like in the western world we believe in Jesus, and on the other parts of the world, they believe other religions?

The answer is as mentioned above. People believe only what they are raised up to believe, and people keep convincing each other that their religion is true.

To further support my arguments, I know of a professor in Norway, Paul N Dukro, I believe it was, who has made an article on the subject. From his work, he can conclude that religion grows during war and epidemic times. This was also backed up by a psychology professor, who made the claim that we need religion to be able to cope with the death of our loved ones. Or simply, religion is a necessity for our psychological well-being.

Whenever I encounter a Christian and ask him why he believes in a religion which I find to be illogical, he will simply say that he can feel the power and love of god, and that no one can prove that he doesn’t exist.

Seeing as only 16 percents of the worlds population belong to Christianity, the rest of the world must obviously be lying or imagining when they say they can feel god.


And last, our old buddy Steven Carr shows us why some people in the UK need to get out more:


I have had a sneak preview of the forthcoming Mr. Incredible film.

The father Mr. Incredible is in his super-hero home, seemingly retired from active duty, while the wicked Dr. Death and Mr. Evil stalk the land.

The father sends his son to do battle with the supervillains.

For 3 years, the son battles the supervillains, doing incredible stuff, like turning water into wine, or talking to the head supervillain in the desert.

Such incredible deeds worry the supervillains, so Dr. Death and Mr. Evil decide to nail his hide.

They do all sorts of nasty things to him. He gets a right good flogging - a real working-over. They then go back to their usual business of spreading evil.

His dad decides to rebuild him, and the son goes back off to the super-hero home, where he now spends all his time telling people how he whupped those supervillains, good and proper.

The film ends with his dad asking him when he is going back down to finish off Dr. Death and Mr. Evil once and for all. The son replies that he can't say exactly what day or hour he is going back down there, but it will be real soon now.

Audience reaction in preview screenings has been mixed.





Bronze duh award winners




Now, when I take the position that truth is relative, this means it does not apply to everyone, everything. Some relative truths may appear absolute because they are moral standards adhered to by a large majority. An example of this is murder. Most human beings believe murder to be wrong. However, there are some, murderers for example, who do not feel that murder is wrong. Thus, murdering being wrong is relative to the beliefs of “the majority.”

A rebuttal I am expecting is “how can you make the statement that truth is relative? Aren’t you making an absolute statement right there?” To answer this, one must realize that truth is relative to logic. And who are we to say that the absolute truth must be logical? We would not recognize absolute truth if it stared us straight in the face, because it is not testable, and therefore an not falsifiable idea. If something is not falsifiable, the burden of proof (resting on believers of absolute truth) cannot be gotten rid of, and, just like any other made-up idea, we may safely assume it does not exist.

So, what do I believe is absolutely true in this world? The only things that possibly could be absolutely true are formal ideas made up by human beings. A prime instance for this is mathematics. Two plus two is four. Always four. Why is this? Two is defined in such a way that the sum of two and two will always be four. Of course, if I was wishing to be extreme (some might say consistent) I could state that math is only relatively true when we are viewing it logically, however, since math is nothing more than a creation of the human mind (have you ever seen a “-1”?) it’s truth can be considered absolute in comparison to something we view in the “real world.” Then again, what the real world is only relative to my viewpoint.

So, what examples of relative truth are there in the real world? To exemplify my point, I am going to briefly discuss Galilean Relativity. This is a very old notion that there is no such thing as an absolute velocity. If I am on a bus going 25 mph, I might say I am going 0 mph, however, someone watching from the side of the bus could say I am traveling at 25 mph. Who is right? We both are. It is all relative.





You probably don't have enough humility to deal with that basic fact. I understand, it takes some getting used to.



John Loftus

The meaning of the passage transcends the context.


Here then are three conceptual problems with an incarnate God, that is, how can one person be truly and fully God, and at the same time truly and fully a man: 1) God is necessarily an uncreated being. Humans are essentially created beings. Therefore Jesus is both created and uncreated; 2) God is necessarily omniscient—he knows everything. Human beings are not omniscient beings. Therefore, Jesus is both an omniscient and also not an omniscient being. But in the New Testament Jesus didn’t act omniscient. He said he didn’t know the time of his own return; 3) God is a morally perfect being, and as such could not be tempted to do wrong. Human beings however, can be tempted to do wrong, and are imperfect. Therefore, Jesus could not be tempted, nor do any wrong, and yet we’re told that he was tempted to do wrong. 4) God is omnipresent, but Jesus as a human being, was no



Notice how my refutations will be succinct, as they appeal to the notion of common sense in people, while your counters will go on and on, seemingly without end.


"This is just common sense. How can a document which only includes detached anecdotes covering less than half of Jesus' life...be considered a history of that life?"


David A. Reed for his Bible Answer Machine: http://bibleanswermachine.ww7.com/BibleAnswerMachine/cgi-bin/question/answer.cgi



-You hate videogames, they kill people.
-You hate the hip-hop, it has to much drugs and sex in it.
-You hate the rock, it is Satan spawn.
-Your automatically sent to hell
-Your afraid of your God, and do not embrace him
-Half the world calls you an infidel
-Your a Christian
-You deny concrete evidence
-The Sun revolves around the world
-The World was created 4400 years ago, give or take.

-Theres so many of you, its not funny
-You run everything
-Your God might, just might, kill all of your faily, inflict you with boils, and take all of your money, just to prove something to the Devil. You will get them back, maybe.
-You just <censored> someone related to you.



If God or Jesus appeared before you and told you that incest was OK how many of you would honestly start sleep with your cousins, sisters, aunts whatever



Ninjas Beat Me Up

Uh, the Bible already says it's ok.

I mean, God made man and women, and Eve was Adam's daughter, and he <censored> her to create a bunch of kids, who intermingled and made more babies, etc.

And God, the Father of all mankind gave the <censored> to Mary, and she made Super Jesus.

And I saw an episode of X-Files with incest, and thigns were jsut fine.



God is said to be a perfect, omniscient, omnipotent deity. Since a perfect, omniscient, omnipotent deity is capable of doing and creating anything, it has an infinite number of possibilities to choose from when deciding which particular state of existence the universe should be. Since it is impossible to traverse infinity, it is impossible for such a deity to consider an infinite number of possibilities in order to create a particular one. Therefore it is logically impossible that God created the universe.




Now...here be an old argument I used to post here now and again...

Jesus comes back from the dead, visits the disciples, has a bite to eat, steps out the door...

...then gets picked up by one of the roman patrols turning the city upside down looking for him. He gets dragged before Pilate for the second time. Pilate, being a brutal thug in a land known for its magicians (the jewish rabbis of the time were regarded as some of the flat out best wizards in the roman empire) decides, rather reasonably, from his POV, that Jesus cheated death somehow with some sort of magic trick. His response is to turn to the nearest centurian and have him run Jesus through more or less on the spot. But: Jesus has beaten death! He *cannot* be killed. Instead, what the soldier *KNEW* should have been a mortal blow had no effect on him at all. At this point, Pilate decides to pass the buck, as it were, and has Jesus dumped on the next ship bound for Rome. Rome: first century AD - home to two million people, half of them slaves. Nearly everybody of any import in the empire at least visited the place, those with any status had residences there. Jesus, by virtue of being convicted for rebellion (tag nailed to cross) and with a reputation for black magic, gets tossed in the arena. Something on the order of 50,000 rabid fans see him take injuries there that should have killed him about five times over. After that, he's got several thousand of Romes citizens who are at least willing to listen to him. A few sermons, a few miracles, and six months later, he's probably got something on the order of a quarter of the city who are either his followers, or at least see him favorably. Twenty years later, its not just a quarter of Rome the city, but something on the order of a quarter of the Roman empire - call it 10 million or so people who are `christians'. AND THESE ARE ALL PEOPLE WHO WERE `CONVERTED' BY JESUS HIMSELF. No Paul. No John. No centuries of obscurity for the christian faith. (in the real world, the total number of christians in the empire remained at less than 200,000 (less than 1/2 of one percent of the empires population for well over 200 years - and that includes groups that were at very bitter odds with each other).



Anything with a imaginative dramatic story line, which means movies, TV, Video Games and even books (fantasy, I'm refraining from saying all stories, cause I don't want to hurt feelers), is a big waste of time.


all I know is that when it comes down to what's going to be done. Stories, and testimonies don't tell Jack about what a person will do. When I was called to Christ at the age of 16 I spent so much of my time watching certain movies, and getting into RPGs (my favorite is FFX), I wasted so much of my developing in christ time. After looking back at it, I wanna say mostly christians are prone to this, but the things that attract us to characters and stories is the 'glorifying of one person' and 'our need for a saviour' or someone to look up to. Watch Spiderman 2 and listen to Aunt May talking to Peter about how we need heroes, it is that corny and sappy. Stories open us up to emulations which if I remember correctly is a manifestation of the flesh.


Re Incarnation

Hmm. How about a famous one? The story of Romulus and Remus. They were descendants of a god and founded the city of Rome.

Jesus? the son of God, started Christianity. Also, read the Da Vinci Code, I am certain there were many examples of the connection.


And to close this time, a potpourri of comments collected in the past by a reader:


Logically, The cause of the Big bang might have occurred after it happened.
Peeshaw. Resurrection. Firstly, can you tell me how long the Bible has been out? And how many translations there have been? The Bible has been bastardized from day one. Everyone could have added small things here and there, until eventually it was accepted as fact. Kind of like that experiment where you say "____ is cool". Then everyone whispers it around the room, until it has transfigured into something opposite.
The only proof of God is a 2000 year old book that was complied by people who didn't even know where the world went when the Sun went down.
God exists within all. The Bible, Koran and all other religious books were written by man and are thus fallible because the words or thoughts needed to see or understand even a small part of the true power do not exist. Why follow men, when you can attempt to understand the universe. Im the priest, I should know
Get "The Lost Books of The Bible". It changed me from being Baptist Christian to a beliver in a "Godian".
Just cause science doesn't have all the answers doesn't mean that religion, any religion, is correct.
No one ever said that God determined anything, just the notion that the future CAN be known removes all free will from the equation. Let's say I KNOW that you are walking into a police station with a bag of coke and a shotgun. I can KNOW that you will be arrested later but I didn't determine it in any way. Examples were never my strong point but you get the idea.
But what made God?
Could God create a rock so big that not even He could lift it? If he can't then he is not all powerful and if he can, he is not all powerful. This dispels the idea of an all-powerful anything (let alone a God).
If God cannot get past man's simple logic, then he is NOT all-powerful.
Don't get me wrong; I've got nothing against Jesus Christ. A guy who gets the **** beat out of him and then nailed to a cross is hardcore. I just don't believe he's the son of some divine spirit.
That's what I don't get about religious people. Someone said they saw something happen 2000 years ago, write it down, and suddenly millions of people live their lives by it?
It's funny that people who live in first world countries and have access to all the information that we have still believe in God and the bible and all that.

It's a *amn fairy tale mixed in with historical events. Obviously every human knows coming to life after death and all the crap is impossible so why even bother to debate it?

You really think some invisible man in the sky is watching over you and controlling everything? LOL if you do.

Christianity stole alot of aspects of the "1st" beliefs and changed it around to suit their own vision. After that several EDITS were made by different people through out the ages. (btw "1st" Religion refers to the EARTH religions ;)
nearly every religion is so similar it is irrelevant, they are just have differing degrees of intolerance.
Christianity has a pretty standard concept of God. Old white man with a long beard. Just like Zeus. Zeus had a son that could do super-human things. So did God.