September 2005

screwballs of the month

 

 

 

There was a lot of LONG mail from Screwballs this month, let me tell you. Who put something in the water?

 

 

from the mailbag

 

There seemed to be more than a few large egos parading around with knowledge made of fig leaves this round. For example:

 

 

Dear Sirs/Madams:


I read your treatise on Hyam Maccoby and I must say, that I a Catholic, an entrepreneur and later a professor, theologian, do not entirely disagree with Maccoby. It is difficult when encountering people with little unbiased academic background to bring them up to speed, so I scarcely know where to begin. But your writings begin with a bias, my research does not. There is a vast chasm between academic reality and unsupported faith. I have faith that a Creator exists and none in human truthfulness. Are you aware that Roman and Hebrew State historical documents contain information about the era in which Yeshua-Jesus lived that show the four gospels to historically incorrect? Are you aware that during Jesus’ lifetime there were dozens of gospels floating around, many written by his disciples, which the church after it sold out to Constantine, a thing Jesus avoided, refusing to sell out during the temptation in the dessert, refusing the glory, wealth, power, both civil and military of Kings and governments? Were you aware that Herod died in 4 BC, so if Jesus, as reported in the gospels, was born during the reign of Herod the Great, had to be living somewhere between 8-4 BC? Meaning he died between 25-29 AD, not 33 AD. That historical documents show John The Baptist being executed in 37 AD, long after Jesus’ death.

 

And on it went, with piles of questions and objections I had answers to all over the site. Come on, guys – check my whole site before sending me this junk, eh? When I gave the man his medication, he said:

 


Apparently you are incapable of learning. Continue in you stone headedness, but if your IQ is obviously well below 160, so I am wasting my time. In future, if you act less like the Chief priests you may be able to recognize a prophet.  I am wasting my time have a good day in LALA Land.

 

 

And naturally, we have an Acharya S fan adding to the mix with this letter:

 

You are so incredibly off base with your comments regarding Acharya S and
her ideas. It is painfully apparent you have read none of her books beyond
skimming through and picking a paragraph here or there. Had you actually
read the book you would have discovered to your horror that the majority of
her evidence is gleaned from the records of the church itself and the words
of the christian apologists.
 
The sad truth is most christians wouldn't know the truth if it slapped them
in the face. And if it did, I sincerely doubt they would turn the other
cheek. Look at what christianity has become, for you yourself are evidently
a prime example: adults that choose to believe in fairy tales over reason,
reality and the true evidence of intelligence behind the universe. Most so
called christians have no idea how far their religion has strayed from the
teachings of Jesus. You voted for Bush, correct? You support war even though
it is a sin to kill. This imaginary war on terror has killed, maimed and
destroyed the lives of countless innocent men, women and children. Where is
the outrage? What would your god think of your inaction? Or do non-christian
lives not matter other than as potential converts in your view of the world? ….

Your world, your church revolves around money. Is this not the very root of
all evil?  Your religion has been usurped by corporate "bottom line"
thinking. Jesus has gone from logos to corporate logo. You and your kind are
snake-oil salesmen hawking a dishonest product with a smiling Jesus on the
bottle.
 
 The Bible is a book of parables and allegory. Look those words up. They do
 not describe historical fact. Therefore, if you do not understand the
 symbolic content of the allegory, but, rather, take it literally, any
 potential wisdom is rendered moot. It becomes a book a silly stories that
 make no sense in the real world, which is sad. Those who claim the Bible is
 so important to them do not even really understand its terminology.
 
 Can you please explain the meaning of the symbols used in Ezekiel's vision?
 Can you make any rational sense from the book of Revelation? Can you not see
 that these are not descriptions of literal beasts and beings? So what are
 they? Do you have the answer? If not I suggest you read these books you
 choose to criticize because Acharya does have the answers, they are logical
 and do not require you leave your faculty to reason at the door.

 

I am your wake up call, James. I am here to expose to you the fallacy of
your existence. God has sent me to offer this chance at redemption from
voluntary ignorance. Don't believe me? Would you believe me if I were an
anonymous Arab that lived 2,000 years ago?
What if I told you I was the son
(sun) of God? (Because I am.) Would you believe me then? What if I told you
I was born in Bethlehem beneath a blazing star? (Because I was.) What would
it take? You believe these things about a fictional composite character that
never existed. I am real and speaking to you now, and I can prove the things
I say.


Mind you, this is a fan of Acharya S who claims to be one who “uses his mind”. No one told him that using it for a handi-wipe doesn’t count. Meanwhile we also had a couple of deluded fans of the 18th century school write in, such as this fan of David Hume:

 

Just what I thought; an immature, neuron-deprived Xian.  At least my hero really existed.

 

And likewise, a fan of Thomas Paine whose entire letter was just like this, as for example, my corrective to Paine’s claim that there were no biographies of Jesus, noting that the Gospels WERE biography in the form such were written in the Greco-Roman era:

 

 

Whether "detached anecdotes" constitute a biography as construed in the
time they were written is of no consequence; they certainly did not
constitute one in the time of Paine, nor do they now.  They are what they
are.  Disjointed anecdotes about the life of Jesus (with an entire segment
of his life missing) from which one can discern what he may.

 

 

In other words, it is of “no consequence” that Paine made a boneheaded error. Oops, time for that medication that cures postmodernism.

 

And then we have this babbling diatribe of conspiracy:


Up until 4 years ago, I would have swallowed whole anything white evangelical "Christian theologists" told me about my own religion.

After the OJ Simpson, and Michael Jackson trials, after September 11, and New Orleans with Katrina I am glad that in my own mind's eye, even as a little girl I had envisioned Jesus as a black man - or to be more specific cafe au lait, which is my own complexion….

Pastor John Hagee sent me ( I sent a donation once) a leaflet inviting me to be a Salt Covenant Partner. However, his rhetoric asked" Who are America's heroes?" and wondered why we should have heroes like OJ Simpson, and Michael Jackson.

He was distraught that several persons supported both individuals in their time of pain.

Did Pastor Hagee feel that way about any of the several thousand black people burned at the stake in your Southern States before the Civil Rights movement in America?

Did he question how Judge Rhenquist could come to be a Supreme Court Judge? A Hero?

Of course not - only BLACK men and women are not permitted to be HEROES.

As a black woman in a third world country (western world's emphasis, not mine) I would rather contribute to my own black brothers and sisters and build my own country - since GOD put me here, I find it inconceivable he would not want me to spend his money here, rather than in supporting a network whose primary but covert aim is to promote white supremacy.

Having read [L. Ray Smith], I am now just about to re-embrace my religion, as his defining of it makes sense.

The Christian religion is not for a bunch of White Religious supremacists who want to be the HAND OF GOD - just as Lucifer wanted to be GOD.

The WHITE RELIGIOUS SUPREMACISTS enticed America to war with Iraq, because they will not allow GOD to do his perfect work for all his children in the world.

Like Ray, I believe all will be saved, eventually, and therefore am now free to see all my fellow men, even WHITE RELIGIOUS SUPREMACISTS as my brothers - maybe persecuting me now, as Joseph's brothers did, but coming to full knowledge at some point in the infinite future ( I am ALPHA and OMEGA, which was and is and is to be) and therefore worthy of my forgiveness - Vengeance is mine, saith the LORD, I will repay...God does not need America to help HIM punish or reward his Children. HE would have dealt with Saddam, in his own time. Wait, I say on the LORD…

And, hey, I guess this is a bit jumbled - no need to discount it as rantings - the simple fact is that Ray Smith is the first writer apart from CS Lewis to open my eyes to the purpose of a LOVING GOD - and frankly the church today is selfserving and full of fallen angels who want to run things. Thankfully, they will all be saved at some time in the future.

Finally, The very purpose of your site seems to be confrontational, as indeed Ray's is  - and established to prove your superiority in religious thought - and to both of you I send a reminder - Him that is weak in the faith receive ye, but not to doubtful disputations.

It seems to me that those of us who do not have the time or mind for religious scholarship might as well give up and go to hell as only you intellectuals will be able to understand the word of God, even though Christ said e even babes could...

Up next, the man who sees visions said to me:

your tone distracts readers from your case, weakening its credibility. i found your logic helpful, even brilliant,  your hectoring tone offensive and revealing of your own relationship with God

 

an example of your tone is

 

 

Ahmed, Nadir

Another Muslim apologist with an obnoxious challenge. Loud mouths galore over there, huh.

 

this was but one example.  i found many more

 

 

how do you claim that, even if what you say is true, which i do not doubt,  that it is said in love?

 

you call it "decisiveness", but would you speak so blisteringly of friends, family,  or people you approved of?

 

scripture says "the mouth speaks the fullness of the heart", "bless and do not curse" " offer a reasoned defense of the hope in you in gentleness and respect"."any who calls a brother raca [ any terms of contempt] is guilty of hell fire", "life and death are in the power of the tongue",  "let your speech be seasoned by grace" "blessed are the merciful" " to those who do not show mercy God will not give mercy" It also says "you know them by their fruit", and "the fruit of the spirit is . . .  kindness . . and gentleness"

 

as for stern rebuke, that is God's prerogative. do we dare arrogate it to oursevles when our fruit indicate that our use of rebuke is abuse and therefore sin.

 

Did Jesus say of Israel "loud mouths galore over there, huh?" or did he while calling them brood of vipers (a phrase certain preachers like to appropriate as it justifies in their own eyes  their own venomous spleen)  not also say "Oh jerusalem who kills the prophets how i would draw you under my wings as a mother hen does her chicks". Jesus wept over his enemies and  forgave them from the cross.

 

you weep over moslem apologists with comments like "loud mouths over there, huh"?

 

 

If your fruit is clear, and i think it is, then you come across as arrogant and a bigot, indeed i hold it inescapable that you are these things. And what does such do? - it helps discredit the perfectly sound things you say. It also shows that you are conceited with your knowledge, for "knowledge puffs up but love edifies".  the meanest illiterate factory hand with love in his heart is more spiritual than you are

 

your writing is burdened with  unnecessary comment.  It is uneconomical, to say the least  Why tell the readers that "loud mouths galore [are] over there"? what comes from this other than a need to vent some self righteous spleen all the more amplified by a contemptuous "huh".

 

And rather oddly, the man went on for several more pages of this apparently “necessary” comment, of which we present now only highlights:

 

your fruit is clearly carnal, therefore you do not know and love the lord and walk in the flesh, and moreover your sarcasm presents opponents with every excuse they ever wanted to reeject what you say. Give them a chance to do an ad hominem fallacy and they wil take it. Why present them with such? why hide brilliant logic behind ill temper and self righteous sarcasm? do you want to be ignored?

 

where is your sensitivity of conscience and your knowlege of the Law of God?

 

I do not want the truth discreditted by arrogant presentations of it, for it is written "the name of God is blasphemed among trhe gentiles because of [us].

 

do you revere (fear) the Lord? then consider what I say, for truth is not a weapon to be wielded by those intending to ridicule and hurt

 

you have a brilliant mind as an apologist, but your zeal for truth is ungodly, being without mercy (I have been there ,myself, and God had me repent thereof).

 

it is clear your like winning arguments, making you a young lion as descibed in the OT, out to devour people.

 

bear the fruit of the spirit and become a marvellously powerful witness to the living Christ. be carnal and be nothing but a religious person, a bigot and a cause for blasphemy by unbelievers and thus a stumbling block.

 

The Lord God Almighty is Holy and Terrible. Heed his words in scripture about the words we speak, or our words will damn us, as scripture says "by your words you are justified".

 

I beleve myself capable of justifying everything written herein, but would keep this missive brief

 

Yep. It’s this sort of “turn or burn” drivel that really encourages me to convert.

 

Last funny letter for this round:

 

 

What you wrote is not a critique. A critique reviews alternate
viewpoints in an semi-unbiased fashion and balances out from other
viewpoints other than your own and the one being assessed. You have an
obvious agenda and are just as narrowminded as Mr. Harpur. You're
ideology stems from your experience and social backgroud as does Mr.
Harpur's and does mine. You are no more right than anyone else.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

golden duh award winners

 

God is a rush, dude

 

 

Ormly on TWeb wins Gold for comments in reply to ApologiaNick. Nick said:

I even have his "My Utmost for his Highest." I prefer exegesis to experience though.

And Ormly said things like:

His experience is an experience. You choose to ignore that.

Exegesis be damned! Learn the big picture then re-examine your own journey in Him.

 

Giver on TWeb shares the award for similar sentiments:

Words said to me by Jesus: “----, Quit trying to figure me out and just follow me.

 

Also my relationship with Jesus isn’t feelings, much physical evidence was given to me, accompanying His voice and Words. The reason I’m sharing all this is to refute the erroneous idea that Jesus doesn’t speak to His people. I know Satan does also, but believe me it doesn’t take long to know the difference.

 

What if I told you I was taught by Jesus that Christians who know God don’t sin, that we are not to hurt (harm) anyone for any reason, that the Eucharist is truly Jesus body and blood, would you believe me? OK! Now believe this: Jesus told me He is God and the Bible is His Word. What greater sign could there be, to have been taught the truth, that it is Jesus who talks to me? Now maybe if you could accept what I just shared, I would share the supernatural healings, miracles, and visions, which Jesus has used to teach and guide me over the last thirty years

 

You all seem so afraid of Satan, as if he has more power than God. Keep your eyes on Jesus and Satan can’t get near you. Satan doesn’t teach us that we don’t sin, or that we are to love our enemies, or that we are to worship God (Father, Son, Holy Spirit). Satan wants to be worshiped and his fruits are not love

 

They got them hands on the by-bull early

 

Jude3b earns Gold for numerous comments like these:

The Old Testament was accepted as one Book. And though the New Testament letters and Gospels were only recently written, the churches of God - the body of Christ traded and copied them. And these scrolls were all gathered together in one important city: Antioch of Syria. Antioch was 310 miles north of Jerusalem. The Bible tells us that "the disciples were called Christians first in Antioch." (Acts 11:26). They were called "Christians" - not Roman Catholics! These Christians in Antioch collected the holy scriptures and made many copies of them. Soon they were all collected into a single Bible. This all took place shortly after 100 AD. This was God's preserved words in Greek.

But there was another city, 317 miles southwest of Jerusalem: Alexandria, Egypt. And in that city the "intellectuals" perverted the words of God. Here is how it happened: From loosely 300 BC to 300 AD, Greek was the "trade language" people used to communicate all over the Roman Empire.


It was also the language of philosophy. That means every person who thought he was smart would read the Greek Philosophy of Socrates, Plato, Aristotle, Stoicism or Epicureanism. These philosophers all wanted to be "scholars." And guess what city turned out to be a philosopher's paradise? That's right! Alexandria, Egypt! Alexandrian "scholars" were stuck up, selfish, jealous hypocrites who could never agree on anything. So guess what kind of Bible they came up with?


The so-called "Scholars" from Alexandria got hold of the pure Bible from Antioch of Syria, which was straight from the apostles and prophets. The Alexandrian Scholars argued for years, but the main source of the false Bible they would produce would be a particular "scholar" named Origen.

Origen didn't like God's Preserved Bible. Why? Because he was a "scholar," or course! During his life he wrote hundreds of books, all infected with Greek philosophy. Origen was NOT a Bible-believer. Origen didn't believe in the Old Testament miracles. Origen didn't believe many of Jesus' words or stories. Origen didn't believe the Holy Spirit was eternal. Origen didn't believe that Jesus Christ was Almighty God!

The Apocryphal books were folk tales in circulation during the time that ORIGEN, and Alexandrian "Scholars" made up his strange and perverted Greek New Testament. Origen added the Apocrpha to his counterfeit Bible. He also added New Testament passages to Old Testaement texts. He put the Old Testament and Apocrypha together and then called it the "ancient" Septuagint! Origen gave the world his Bible, not God's: It contained a Modified Old Testament, plus the folk tales called Apocrypha, plus a perverted New Testament. This is the basis of Origen's Alexandrian "Bible."


By 405 AD Jerome had finished a latin perversion based on the counterfeit Bible of Origen. It was called the "Roman Catholic Latin Vulgate!!"

There were still many copies of the preserved Word of God in Old Latin and many faithful believers hid their Bibles. Counterfeit Christianity was coming into full bloom now - and starting about 413 AD - in the form of Roman Catholicism, it would control most of the known world for the next 1000 plus years, and the church of God - the body of Christ, fled into the wilderness, as is shown in the book of Revelation.

The church of God - the body of Christ would remain in the "wilderness" during most of the dark years of the "Papal reign."

 

 

Then just eat rocks from now on

 

TealTerror wins Gold for a collection of comments:

 

If God didn't want sex to be abused, He shouldn't have made it feel so good.

 

God could've prevented a lot of suffering by making sex not feel good, or making sugar not taste sweet

 

There are many sins Christians could do that would incur no consequences on Earth...such as lusting after someone, for one. "Committing adultery in your head," right? Yet it seems that no negative consequences turn out from it...hmm...

 

I think most Protestants don't believe in engaging in sex for pleasure, either.

 

What was the purpose of making sex feel good and sugar taste good? What was the point, other than to tempt people to make stupid choices?

 

However, the NT writers are very biased, especially when it comes to the resurrection, since they have an obvious stake in it.

You see, we don't doubt most things written by Tacitus because he doesn't have much of a reason to lie. Why would he? Same with Josephus...

The NT writers' faith would have been shaken significantly if Jesus was not resurrected. Doesn't it make sense that I'm a little suspicious about their claims as to his resurrection?

 

The good reason I have that parts of what Luke wrote are fictional or untrue is because those parts are unbelievable.

 

The only record we have of someone converting because he saw Jesus after the crucifixion is Paul... Therefore, we have no records of people converting after seeing the risen Jesus, which puts Holding's theory that people would only convert if they saw the risen Jesus into doubt.

 

Even if your theory was true, why would the resurrection erase the social stigma? He was still crucified, right? Why would undeniable proof of his resurrection make people say "Oh, then the crucifixion was fine, then"?

 

 

The John Loftus House of Piffles

 

 

John Loftus (aka DoubtingJohn) wins Gold for many things this time:

 

What? I'm a sliver away from putting you on ignore for that one, stupid. So, if there is one whisker left, that man has a beard? I seriously think that you should reconsider before wasting your money to become an apologist for Christianity. You haven't got a clue. You haven't got the needed smarts to be one even if you did read quite a bit more than "See Spot Run books. I cannot imagine why Jaltus said that you were pretty intelligent. This has nothing whatsoever to do with the fact that we disagree on our control beliefs, either. You need to consider being a garbage collector. That requires few brains, and it pays well, and serves a needed function in society. And to think a critique by you of me is posted on JP Holding's website. All I can think is that you must contribute some money to him.

 

So, history is objective? Then tell me if O.J. Simpson is a murderer, or whether Michael Jackson is a child molester. Tell me who killed President Kennedy. Tell me who build the Pyramids and why? Tell me also whether or not we needed to fight the American civil war, or whether the South could've won the battle of Gettysburg if a fence had not been there?

 

Intelligence is in short supply here. You get the Gold for not being able to read what I write, if that's the sum total of what you understand of it all.

 

Anyone who thinks 1) one whisker is a beard; 2) thinks I am wrong if I cannot exactly specify which straw (of evil) will break the camel's back, who thinks 3) natural evil poses no problem for his faith, and 4) history is objective evidence for Christianity, is simply not worth my time.

 

Oh, and as far as me nominating so many here. I guess it means that intelligence is in short suppy here, that's all.

 

The devil does not exist, buddy.

What idiot, knowing full well the awesome power of God, would knowingly rebel against him?

 

DJ didn’t read his own book, apparently.

 

You're whole discussion assumes what needs to be shown; that Satan exists.


In one passage it was God himself who sent a lying spirit into the prophets. Apparently evil spirits are sent by God and are used by him to bring up charges against believers much like they do today.

 


Vance, even Holding said he understands why I'm a doubter after reading the book.

 

Yep -- he even plugged his book again!

 

 

So you go out there right now to the fetish festival

 

 

Diamond Rio posted a topic (called "The Benefits of Marriage") in a forum where he said:

 

So if one lives by the rules set down in the Bible, why only pick and choose which ones you like, such as Homosexuality being a sin? In order to be a good Christian, one has to abide by all of God's laws, not just pick and choose which ones you like., the ones which coincide with your personal interests. God is not about serving your personal interests. If you want to abide by one of God's laws, then you have to abide by all of of God's laws.

In fact, one of God's laws says you must not oppose evil:

"But I say unto you, that ye resist not evil; but whosoever shall
smite thee on the right cheek, turn to him the other also"--Matt. 5:39

Which means if you consider homosexuality evil then you must not resist it.

 

 

And if you don’t wear a robe and sandals you’ll go to hell

Bagger_Vance wins Gold again for:

Jesus is unchanging.
Jesus is in the heart of every christian.
Christians should therefore all have the same values since all have the same Jesus.

That seems pretty straightforward to me. If Jesus is indeed in all christians then they should have no differences about the life, nature, and teachings of Jesus. After all for the christian it isn't a matter of interpretation anymore but a matter of divine inspiration. Jesus is actually in them and the Holy Spirit is moving within them so why is he telling them all different things? Is Jesus a skitzo?

Since it isn't possible for Jesus to be a hippie socialist revolutionary, capitalist legalist, ardent pacifist, and supporter of putdowns(Hey JP!) etc the only logical answer the christian can have to the conundrum is to say that some people just are lying about their faith. In fact the christian must say that most other people that claim to be christian are lying about their salvation.

Let's say we have 10 people that read the Bible, believe it, and get saved. Now after that all 10 have different views about what the bible really says and how one should live the christian life. They all agree that Jesus is in them personally and that he is the way, truth, and life but if Jesus is the tie that binds why do they still not all through Him see the same path? Wouldn't it logically follow that if we all were looking through the same telescope pointed at the same place we'd see the same object?

Again if all 10 say that Jesus is revealing different things to them then either Jesus is really telling all of them different things, some are lying, or Jesus doesn't exist and they are all hearing what they want/need to hear.

So explain this to me. You all claiming to hear the same voice but all have drastically different claims to what the voice is. How is that possible? If the same Jesus is saving you all then there should be no disagreements no matter how small because Jesus is telling you and guiding you all the same way. Even the feud between JP and other christians on the merit of courteousness to doubters should not be happening because Jesus has to have a definite opinion and he is in the heart of both sides.

 

 

 

Mein kampf was a chick tract

Emesshalom takes paranoia to new levels with this Gold commentary:

Hi, I am a Jew and targeted missionary work at Jews is nothing more or less than a continuation of the Holocaust. It is an ongoing act of terrorism. It dehumanizes, degrades and desensitives the missionary and ultimately leads to the persecution, torture and murder of the Jews. The evangelic drive of Christianity is the single most evil part of its philosphy and has lead directly to its bloody and vicious history. Becuase of it, Christianity is its own S'tan.

 

Typical arrogant Missionary reply. To be expected. For 2000 years, Christian missionaries have persecuted, tortured and murder Jews and gotten away with it because govt and church organizations of Christendom have supported such evil behavior. The evangelic claim of Christianity and its various mutations are the basis for multiple acts of Christian terrorism.

 

As an aside, this last was a reply to a Wiccan (not a Christian) who corrected his paranoia in the first comment.

 

 

 

 

Moe, Larry and Curly after brain surgery

 

The trio of AutoMaton, whoweepsforkirk, and God of Gorns share Gold for a series of comments, including many about their experiences on TWeb. Starting with Moe (AutoMaton):

I posted the same post over at TheologyWeb that I posted here...

Why Christianity is complete and total [censored]!

Although I used nonsense in place of [censored] because they're big babies about cursing there.

There were 9 pages of replies, all at the intellectual level of a three year old. Not only did they reinforce my belief that god does not exist and the whole of religion IS [censored]....but I only got 5 replies that even attempted to answer the post.

If there ever was a worst site, and a worst example of religion nutbags...TheologyWeb takes the cake!

-
Oh yeah...9 pages of smart [censored] comments in about 3 hours...

It says a lot for the quality of that website and the [censored] on it.

 

And yes, I noticed the two or so atheists that posted against me as well. I guess they've just been brow-beaten so badly by the overwhelming population of pimple-faced, college kid bible-thumpers on that site, that they might want to rethink their whole atheist position.

 

Now Larry (God of Gorns), with his own comments on Moe’s posts:

 

Thank you for the link Hebrews. I made it to the second page & it was like an army of Hams with no answers, looking like fools. Seasoned debaters my Edited by a moderator. Spouting gibberish is not a debate skill moo-heads! HAHA! Every point Automaton made is correct. Thank the FSM we have a non-biased forum here where we can actually discuss things. Kirk & Automaton are correct. TWeb does not want debate, they want reassurance that their beliefs are true, as they themselves know deep in their minds that they believe in something without proof. A real waste of time that board.

1.) There is no proof that God exists.

Absolutely true. No reason to go into this as personal feelings do not count as proof & that's all Christians have. So, 1 point Automaton.

2.) There is no proof that Jesus ever existed...


Also true. The bible was written many years after Jesus' supposed death. Historical documents make no mention of Jesus at all. So unless you count the bible as a history book, which it isn't as it's full of supernatural nonsense, Automaton is correct again.
2 points Automaton.

 

3.) The whole of Christianity is based on a work of fiction, and personal recollection as its primary foundations...

Well, yes the bible is a work of fiction with some historical facts thrown in. Since the entire book is not 100% accurate, there's no logical way to defend anything in it.
3 points Automaton.

4.) Religious people are addicted to faith and belief in the supernatural.



No reason arguing this. Even Christians know this.
4 points Automaton.

I now give Automaton an award for "Most Intelligent Post Made At Tweb!" Congratulations!! Here are your pearls! LOL!

Now Curly (whoweepsforkirk):

Hosea 13:16 Samaria shall become desolate; for she hath rebelled against her God: they shall fall by the sword: their infants shall be dashed in pieces, and their women with child shall be ripped up.

"Their infants shall be dashed in pieces, and their women with child shall be ripped up."
Because the Samaritans chose to worship another deity, God will dash their infants to pieces and their "women with child shall be ripped up."

to me, this is god sanctioned abortion.

i know you all will come up with verbally deft ways of defending this, but it seems pretty clear-cut and transparent to me.

 

By the way, kirk does get rather agitated at those who fail to respect context when it comes to, uh, Star Trek:

 

a big point is that ENT is a prequel. the other shows, that many of us love, are all dependent on it, because it is their history. when it changes history, it affects the later shows which have already established a connection to the fans. this places upon the writers a responsibility to be faithful to established plotlines and beloved characters.

they chose to disregard this responsibility and do what they wanted. this was disrespectful to those of us who have been faithful trek fans since before braga came along, many years before, a lifetime before.

this is why this show has less latitude. anyone who makes a prequel to some piece of fiction knows this. braga knew this. but it was more important for him to do HIS thing, to have braga's sci-fi, over what the majority of fans wanted.

i was looking forward to ENT at first. i was excited to see the birth of the federation. but then they started changing things arbitrarily, just because they could, never out of necessity. this has upset many trek fans, and it basically cost braga his job. unfortunately, it may also have cost ENT it's run on t.v.

 

But anyway, on TWeb and his experience there:

 

at TWeb, if you post a link during a debate, you get a warning and the post gets erased. links are only allowed on the [butt]-smoochio christian boards where everyone is in agreement.

yeah, they foster debate there. NOT!

that site is about christians sitting around [censored] each other.

[BIG FREAKING CENSORED!]

 

 

Finally: Gold to Stephen Van Eck for sending me more stupid junk mail. He responded to my latest detailed article on him by claiming "little effort" was made to address his arguments and then repeating them again.

 

 

 

Silver duh award winners

 

 

 

Bagger Vance earns the Handy Self-Refutation Award:

 

The question isn't the existence of absolutes but whether or not we can know them.

Moral relativism is not simply saying that no truth exists or that absolutes don't exist. I believe that we know of absolutes that exist. However we do not know the whole of the universe and the knowledge therein so we cannot know the absolute truth
.



Popey earns the Sermon of the Week Award for this performance as part of his effort to “shut down the Bible”:

Today we live and breathe in a society that is very much a result of scientific advancement, and human evolution (in the general sense). How can people still require religion to help explain our existence? This is what really frustrates me. It is an illogical explanation for existence! It is filled with contradiction! And it is completely outdated!

The problem with Christianity (and most other religions) is that it bases its belief so broadly in a text that is meant to be the (concise) word of God. **You would also think that if it is the word of God, it would be in a universally understandable form**

Most believers know very little about the history of their religion, they go to Church every week and they get spoon fed quotes from the New Testament (NT) - a revised edition of the Old Testament (OT). The famous Ten Commandments are underlying proof of both the inconstancy of the Bible and the convenient selection of the NT. For your convenience I will bring the evidence to you:

i. I am the Lord thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage. Thou shalt have no other gods before me.
ii. Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth. Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the Lord thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me. And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.
iii. Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord thy God in vain; for the Lord will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain.
iv. Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: But the seventh day is the sabbath of the Lord thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.
v. Honour thy father and thy mother: that thy days may be long upon the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee.
vi. Thou shalt not kill.
vii. Thou shalt not commit adultery.
viii. Thou shalt not steal.
ix. Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour.
x. Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor any thing that is thy neighbour's.

At a simple glance, you would probably think nothing of it. But look what the word of God is actually saying. The first four commandments condemn our own religious freedom, and freedom of speech.

i. states that we must bow down to worship him
ii. condemns the creation and worship of other Gods
iii. states we can’t take his name in vein
iv. commands us to worship his Sabbath day

 

 

Pythagoras wins the Two-Headed Cockroach Award, first for cluelessness on the Trinity:

(A)Do you agree Christ's soul died?
(B) How can the soul of God(Jesus) die?
(B) How can God("the Father") forsake himself("the Son")?


Then for these comments on my “Patriot Analogy” article:

 

The only problem is Osama Bin Ladin has never said in any of his speeches that he is a patriotic American . Quite the contrary!

 

You cannot conclude Hitler was not a "true Christian" just because you believe he hated "Christians and religion in private". That's your personal opinion, and a poor one. There is no way to know for certain what Hitler actually believed..

 

Stevie Carr wins the Psychoanalysis Award for:

The silence of Christians defending the 'testimony' about God in the links I gave, speaks volumes for the fact that deep down, everybody behaves like an atheist, when it comes to the crunch.

 

Soundsurfr wins the Displaced Scholarship Award for these comments:

Newsflash - communism does not equal atheist ruled state. Even if it did, you have provided no causal tie between the economic demise of a communist system and the atheistic component. Wanna give that a try?

Japan is a primarily atheist society with a totally secular government that is neither in chaos, nor "going backwards" whatever that means. I.e., it is a prime counter-example to your bogus assertion.



As Johnny EC, a TWebber with an interest in Japan noyed, “I find it odd that a country with two national religions (Shintoism and Buddhism), along with a few budding cults (Sokku Gakkai, Niichi-ren Buddhism) a ‘primarily atheist society’.”

 

 

Colossians earns the Uncontrolled Egomania Award for:

My writings are highly structured, scholarly in approach, and weighty in content, and should therefore provide enough background information for you to answer your question. Each post I have made does not cover all issues, so you will have to read them all.

 

Of course he uses the word “pistis”, that is why we translate is as “faith”. The word is irrelevant, it is the context which determines its use.

 

BibleWheel wins the Mike Drosnin Gimmick of the Week Award for his “Bible Wheel””

The first thread is the Bible Wheel. It is simply a view of Scripture from a higher dimension. All I did was roll up the list of 66 Books in the Bible like a scroll on a spindle wheel of 22 Spokes corresponding to the 22 Hebrew letters, which God Himself embedded in the Alphabetic Verses, such as Psalm 119. Everything about the Bible Wheel follows from that one simple act. This generates a two-dimensional view of Scripture from the one-dimensional list and thereby reveals a host of correlations that otherwise may be unnoticed. As such, it has nothing to do with structures derived from the alphanumeric values of the Greek and Hebrew languages. That's topic is covered under the third thread, called Biblical Holographs

 

 

Shunyadragon wins the Delorean Accident Award for:

Determined by Rome is not vague at all, it is a matter of fact. You do not have enough documentation before ~200 BC to support your claim that the the teachings of the apostles were perserved. Your or downplaying ignoring the controversy, conflict and diversity of beliefs, including the gnostics that were forcibly suppressed.

 

Iwayne wins the Fingers in the Ear Award for:

I won't waste my time with any evangelically-based drivel titled Jesus and the Victory of God. Give me a break.


And, some website awards for”

 

http://www.thebricktestament.com/ -- the usual decontextualizations, illustrated with Legos

 

http://www.venganza.org/ -- the latest strawman permutation from the Invisible Pink Unicorn school of atheism

 

http://www.lewrockwell.com/vance/vance40.html -- features a “have you stopped beating your wife” test for Christians in which you are asked to say true or false to such things as:

  1. The commandment "Thou shalt not kill" (Exodus 20:13) never applies to killing in war.
  2. We should follow President Bush’s leadership because he is a Christian.
  3. Torturing Iraqi prisoners to obtain information is okay if it saves the life of one American.
  4. The command to "submit yourselves to every ordinance of man for the Lord’s sake" (1 Peter 2:13) means that we should kill foreigners in their country if the government says to do so.

 

Bronze duh award winners

Minnesota reads the same hermeneutics textbook used by the cartoon makers at Warner Bros:

1. What do you imagine the Christian heaven to be like? Please be as descriptive as possible. Consider not only its "physical" appearance, but its temporal nature, how it will affect one's individuality, how it will sublimate or accentuate one's personal needs, and how the time spent on Earth may impact one's stay. And, what do you imagine you're actually going to be doing all live long day and night?

2. What do you imagine the Christian hell to be like? Please be as descriptive as possible. Consider not only its "physical" appearance, but its temporal nature, how it will affect one's individuality, how it will sublimate or accentuate one's personal needs, and how the time spent on Earth may impact one's stay. And, what do you imagine you're actually going to be doing all live long day and night?

As I see each, unless some kind of radical lobotomy is preformed, both are going to be incredibly boring, particularly heaven.

 

Bright1Raziel

[Bright... what a misnomer]Jesus wasnt even crucified on a cross. The Romans didnt start ussing the cross untill around 120AD. Up until that point, a simple wodden stake was used and the prisoner was tied by thier hands (not nailed as this was a waste of good Iron) to the top and left to starve to death. If the crime was particularly nasty, then the punishment was even nastier, the criminal was not tied to the stake but rather pushed onto from above. (sort of like a ventriloquests dumy) so the t shaped cross is a total fabrication to begin with.

As for people not survivng (modern) crucifiction, well it happens all the time. It is very common in malasia and parts of africa and the philipenes and many other remote places. People crucify themselves (or get someone to do it for them) and stay that way for several days in order to gain some sort of enlightenment.

 

 

dredgtone

no offense but it bugs me to see how hard theists will try to justify the actions of a supposedly loving God in the face of his actions which speak otherwise. He killed women and children!!! Even man has an unwritten understanding that killing women and children is a nono, but God did it. And if God did it, it must be okay! . . .

The bottom line is, God's word in Leviticus doesn't sound like God's word at all. Instead, it sounds to me like the word of man in the infancy of his moral intellect. God on the other hand is perfect and therefore his morals, which should reflect this perfection, should be perfect themselves. In other words, God shouldn't be telling man to kill whores and their children, endorse slavery, condemn homosexuality (his very own creation i might add) etc...

 

 

Xavier86

Let's say you have two opposing armies, both comprising Christian soldiers, and both sides pray for God's guidance.

What's God supposed to do there? The winner of the battle is the side God favored?

 

 

MrTulip

The Christian Right in a Nutshell

1) Bush mocking Karla Faye Tucker - "please
don't kill me!"

2) Bush smiling while declaring "Shock and Awe"

3) Bush "The War President"

4) Christian Coalitions reoccuring support of racism. Amendment 2 in Alabama for starters. Supporting a racist agenda while claiming to be just nice Christian people.

5) Bush appointing homosexual after homosexual to office.

6) Bush administrations relabeling of Torture as "aggressive interrogation".

And this is just for starters. Christian right - I double dog dare ya - take me on and be exposed.

 

 

 

rase

Christians are bad people because they condone murderous acts of their "psycho god" Jehovah, who indiscriminately kills at, what he considers it to be, slightest provocation. Not only do christians condone such murder but they actually worship such a "psycho god" !! What is even worse is that these christians would do just about anything to get to Heaven to be with their "psycho god".


Dear christians, you need saving big time, otherwise all of you are going to end up in Hell. Lucky for you, I am here to instill some MORALS into you, so that you will be saved from the clutches of your "psycho god."

 

 

Cognos on Hebrew grammar in Gen. 2:19:

You, yourself, point out that "the NIV (but no other version that I know of)" uses the pluperfect. (BTW, before you mentioned it, I had never heard of the pluperfect ... right?)

And you say: “The insistence of the critics upon a plain past is partly the result of the attempt to make chapters one and two clash at as many points as possible.”

What is your explanation for the use of a plain past by the Biblical scholars who translated the KJV, NKJV, ESV, ASV and NASB?


Nothing like an appeal to faceless, nameless translators who give no reasons for their translation as an argument against a detailed argument by named sources for a given translation.

 

 

Trimibeky


I consider a Jew to be someone who practices Jewish culture. That means a Jew can have almost any sort of religious belief except for Christianity. To be a Christian is to denounce your Jewry, because Christianity basicly trounces on everything Jewish, because it says that Jewish culture isn't allowed.

A Jew can be Hindu, atheist, Muslim, Pastafarian,etc. and still be considered a Jew. But the moment they become a Christian is their loss of Jewish identity.

 

 

heidegger

Rather than explaining that Jesus existed, Tektonics.org states that there were many people like Jesus. During those times, there were indeed many people who preached other religions. That's why Jesus was considered "just a blip on the screen". Jesus was just another one of the many preachers or spiritual healers. Tektonics.org has failed to convince me or anyone else that Jesus Christ existed, therefore, it attempts to confuse us all.

 

 

MichaelCadry

The 3 frogs that gathered the kings in the Middle East are almost accomplished. The frog in Iraq is the last one. Which draws us to the very end of the tribulation and His Second Coming. Rest in knowing that He loves us and those who know what really is going on, which I fear some of you surely don't. But pray to God that you will be taken to Him, Whom you Love, this time around. For those who disbelieve, so be it. Amen.

 

PHIL121

I'm simply stating what the Holy Spirit has reveled to me.
One of those things is that preterism is blasphemy, because it is inherently anti-semetic.

 

Kenite

I don't. Satan has those. There is only one gospel, and Prot denoms, the Romans and Orthodox don't have it. They are all inspired by Satan, whose ruses get tumbled. Romanism and Orthodoxy are his early, unsophisticated attempts to mimic the church. The Brethren under their various brand names get far closer. As I have said before, there is only one church.

 

 

DBC67 on why Jesus died by crucifixion and not something else:


But he's GOD! He can take on our shame by wiggling a finger, or he can erase the shame by wrinkling his nose. Any constraint you put on him undermines his omnipotence, omniscience, benevolence, or role as creator.

Faithful nonbeliever on OT laws in context:

 

So do you think those laws were acceptable at the time then? Sounds like those are words of a lunatic to me. I guess they were "re-worked" when people realized how unacceptable that was.

 

Bettenoir on Jesus:

He has stolen a Donkey and he had aproblem with honoring his mum,he also has a habit of being angry at people wich is not very loving

I don't agree with you that it's perfect,i think it's ok but not perfect.I don't see how event's that happend so long ago can be acuratly protrayed.Especilly since it was written by human's and we as a speices are flawed.

 

Finally, Brooks Trubee and Johnny Skeptic share for their rehashes: The former returned with "Are all Jews going to hell? Yes or no” attempting to pretend that none of the previous discussions of Hell that he had with the apologists on TWeb ever took place; and Johnny, for signing up illegally after being banned from TWeb again – and giving it away by plagiarizing himself, copying and pasting the same arguments he used on other forums under the name Johnny Skeptic!